| We were joined this week on the podcast by former Euroleague HC and ACB Coach of the Year, Joan Plaza! We dove into a variety of topics including Coach Plaza’s thoughts on Practice Methodology, playing 5 v. 5, player development, and discuss minute distribution and defending the pick and pop during the always fun “Start, Sub, or Sit?!” |
Transcript
Joan Plaza 00:00
At the beginning of the practices, we are progressing from 1-1 till 5-5, but there are many times that we are not playing 5-5, especially at the beginning of the season. We are focusing in improve our skills, try to create this kind of chemistry between the players, and then we arrive on this process to finally play more often 5-5, but for sure it’s important that they understand that they need to improve sometimes, improving in these little skills that many of them, they are not appreciating enough.
Dan 01:57
And now, please enjoy our conversation with Coach Joanne Plaza. Coach, thank you very much for making the time. We are really excited to speak with you today. Thanks a lot.
Joan Plaza 02:17
to you and everybody who are improving the knowledge about basketball behind the basketball. That everybody are watching games, but not as many are watching the process to arrive to play the game.
And then that’s fine. And I am really pleased to help you and be with you today.
Dan 02:33
Thank you, Coach, we appreciate that. Coach, we wanted to start with your ideas on practice methodology and the way that you would think about building a team and the synergies between the players from let’s say a two on two, three on three, four on four, into five on five. And so that however you wanna play, whatever style offense you would wanna play that year, you would think about building it up throughout practice into that style.
Joan Plaza 03:01
I think that as coaches, we need to adjust and to adapt our methodology, even if we have one clear idea about what we like about around the team, the place, the club, the university, the country. For me, it’s very important than that because I came from a school from Badalona. Badalona, maybe the majority of the people doesn’t know it, maybe in Europe, yes. But Badalona is a kind of team who always are forcing to grow the players because to sell these players, permitting the team to still surviving, understanding. And then Badalona is probably one of the best schools for young guys to grow in because they are not another chance. It means that in Badalona, normally the majority of the times, you know, has one super big sponsor who takes care about all your chances, doesn’t care that you win your loss. No, you need to win for sure, like in every team, but you need to provoke that your place is improved. And then Badalona right now, from the last 20, 25 years, are providing a lot of players, not only for Spain, also for Europe, and even from NBA, with that Ricky Rubio, Rudy Fernandez are coming from there, but several ones of them.
Then for us, something that I promote is that my prayers improve. I know that the situation looks so silly in terms that everybody wants, that their plays improve, but we inverting time to improve. The way that we are practicing a little bit, especially in summertime, is a little bit like this. It means that for sure we’re going to try to create a process where the other teams are worried from our style. We are not working to destroy our opponents. You know, because you talk with several coaches, many of that coaches, when they finish the game on Sunday, they needed to have information immediately from the next opponent just to destroy the opponent’s playbook or the opponent’s way to work. Then for me, for sure this is important. Like it’s important right now, big data, to try to understand what process the stats are telling about you. But the most important is that we are focusing in ourselves. Then for sure we’re going to adjust and adapt a little bit with our opponents. But the most important is that we are believing in our way, losing our winning, and for sure understand that we need to arrive in the best moment of the season in the perfect shape, perfect mentality, while the players are improving.
Then it’s a little bit different with maybe another coaches. It means that I want that they understand that we’re going to work together, but for sure we need to work skills with my assistants before and after that many times in the beginning of their practices, we are warming up with two or three or four and zero, not necessarily playing 5-5 all the time like some of the coaches are doing. And then we are progressing during the practices from 1-1 to 5-5, but there are many times that we are not playing 5-5, especially at the beginning of the season. We are focusing in improve our skills, try to create this kind of chemistry between the players. And then we arrive on this process to finally play more of 10-5, but for sure it’s important that they understand that they need to immerse sometimes improving in these little skills that many of them, they are not appreciating enough.
Pat 06:25
Coach, I’d like to follow up with the goal of player development of improving your players. You mentioned that you’ll do 5 on 5 more so later in the season, and that to start the season and early in the season, you’re going to go more 1 on 1, 3 on 3, these smaller breakdowns.
What have you found the value of doing smaller group work, 2 on 2, 3 on 3, in developing your players versus going early to 5 on 5?
Joan Plaza 06:48
What I detected that many times, and I think that the majority of the coaches can tell you this, is that many of the players, like we said here in Spain at least, and I think in other countries in Europe, the majority of the players, they know the M, N, or P of the adversary, but sometimes they don’t know the ABC. If you pretend to create one wood group who are trying to compete in the high level during many years, you cannot just focus in your final five, and then they need to appreciate that they need to understand that probably they became from teams where they are stars or they are one of the better teams, but probably with the previous coach, they are not focusing to be able to improve their passing skills.
It means that one of the biggest problems that I detected in basketball right now is that our passing skills are pretty bad, that we don’t infer things so many times, and I understand because many of the coaches have the pressure of her general managers to win or win, but what you pretend is to create some kind of legacy, let’s say in this way, you need to go one step forward, and then this step forward means that you need to improve your skills. It’s some aspects that the majority of the players, enough for themselves or the previous coaches, they don’t appreciate enough, and then in my time, in my period, what I tried is try to force them to understand that these little situations of time that we can infer every time on themselves, even when we’re creating these terms to between two and two or three and three maximum four and four, we are provoking some kind of routines or mechanisms where they’re going to find easy solutions without thinking.
I know the kind of coach that they are telling them the sets, many coaches, when the team are grabbing different ribbons, they begin to set the kind of set that they did to use it. Sure, I did it sometimes, not quite often, but it’s not my style.
What I want that they identify what is the best option, and then for those situations, we can arrive for sure doing five and five, but the better process is this progressive situation where you are promoting in these two and zero sometimes, two and two or three and four, and for sure understanding that they need to do it in a really competitive way to give their best, or in offense or defense many times, but for me, it’s important, and then it’s something that I am ending them on this recruitment time, and for sure in summer time that is when you can infer more time given the skills. Finally, for sure, there are many coaches, or there are many players in this case that they are demanding more five and five because of what they like.
Then you can be a kind of coach that you just adjust to your players, and then if you do what the players are demanding on you, the majority of the time, what they want to work in five and five from the minute first of the practice till the end of the practice, and yeah, we have some mistakes, but okay, but we’re enjoying, we are happy, we are okay, okay, that’s fine, but I don’t cheat you. In terms of in summer, when I repeat you, I tell you that we’re going to try to, when you finish the season, you finish better than when you arrive, and then probably you’re going to have another offer in the future. But on this process, for sure, we need to divide or find the moments to improve you in this two, two, or three, three, four, even if you don’t like it too much.
Pat 10:08
One follow-up. You mentioned how important, obviously, with any drill that they’re competitive. What other things are you thinking about when you’re going to do a two-on-two, three-on-three drill that are important to hold the player’s attention?
Joan Plaza 10:21
For me, it’s important that they are understanding that they need to adjust constantly on the game situations. We’ve said many times that always offense are over defense in terms that the offensive knows what he’s going to do with the ball, but never different. The offense can have some kind of intentions. They can promote some situations in offense for a ball, some weak defense, sending to one side, left or right or whatever. But finally, the guy with the ball, the person who are deciding what he’s going to do, then for me, it’s important that they are detecting these different kind of possibilities that defense can provide.
But another question that for me is important is to play without the ball. One of the questions that I think that we work in wars, generally in the war, more here in Europe for sure, that is what I can talk, that we are not working enough far from the ball. The guys that are not involved with the ball, then we can see quite often that when we use in a banger situation, when we are punishing some bombs against the roller, the big guys, the position of this guy who are often seeing the bumper is key. And then to move with our ball and stimulate that situations on our practices are also important. And then all these skills is what I try to promote. It means that you need to be able to create with the ball. But the other guys, the other four guys, they are important, they are enjoying and knowing and applying these kind of situations, they’re going to promote some easier basketballs. And then many times I said to my players that they need to understand that the majority of the cases, when you set one really good screen, you are not helping too much, probably the screener, you are helping your own self because they’re going to switch on you because they are focusing with the shooter and not with the guy who are setting the screen. Then this little thing that the majority of players don’t take care is what I try to promote, you understand? And then it’s more than to create with the ball. It is what you are helping the team, you’re working in the fresh screen, the fresh screen we are creating for the shooter, the majority of the cases. But if we started it, and two years ago, we detected that 70% of the cases that use the fresh screen, the guy who set the screen is the guy who’s convincing is even better, because everybody are focusing on that. And then that they are generous when they are on this effort, when they are working for their teammates, probably what they are provoking is that they’re going to be alone or they can finish getting better options to finish or basket or get some fouls, then all these little things that they are out of the pace because everybody are focusing on the scorer, but not how we are promoting or creating this. Many times when we are in the warm up, we are walking this kind of skip passage over my head to the corner, because the majority of the cases when we are attacking open the strong side, we defenders are or no more lazy, but they are not as with the same tension that with the strong side, and then how you can put it that situations for me is important then moving with a ball with somebody who is smartest, or they understand how they can stimulate their teammates is a good option for me.
And then I try with the videos with some examples from NBA or early game or even Australian basketball sometimes I put the best example that they understand that this is the way and not just getting to score or just to creating around the ball.
Dan 13:39
You mentioned off-ball creating advantages knowing how to space or cut or move when you’re building up your practice and you’re playing two-on-two or three-on-three, how do you think about building those skills when it’s, I guess, not five-on-five?
Joan Plaza 13:54
that in general right now in Europe and like I saw right now in Phoenix in Denver and in Sacramento, the majority of the coaches we’re using this time to still promoting that situation without too much effort means that we are creating some kind of wheels where you can promoting some bank doors, some cuts, some flash situation where they are cutting with a ball from the weak side to the strong side or the open end. Then we’re using this first 10 minutes to warm up with the ball, to warm up to create this heavy. Then one of the worst thing that we can do like a coaches is that for the players are thinking also too much. It means that I want the players that they are smart, that they are reading the situations, but I want that their bodies react without thinking too much.
I mean that what I want that when we are swinging a ball from the top, it married the weak side 45 degrees, they need to understand that or they coming for a handoff or they are cutting with a ball or they are screening to the guy on the baseline to come in to cut a new and then, but they need to react and they need to do it because you created this habit. Then this habit is what I want to promote that they do it without thinking exactly the set or the name or whatever. No, what I want that they do it. Even for example, on a transition game, what I want is that they identify exactly when you’re putting the ball on after rebound or the basket that the manner you can detect if you have one tourist guy in front of you, if everybody’s open, if you are your two big guys behind the view. Then I don’t want to adjust to telling the set. What I want that the guy who are bringing up the ball and right now in all the world, almost everybody coming in at the ball, not only the pointer, like on the pass, that they’re detecting immediately what’s the best option for us to try to go on this process where everybody are trying to get as many offenses as possible. It means that we are not waiting too long. We are not waiting 24 seconds. We are not looking for to do it to play walking like we did on a pass. Right now, it’s important that we are immediately trying to get the advantage from the second first.
Then I impose to my team for example that we need to cross midline in three seconds. We fast will be terrific, but with dribble, not necessarily in the middle. I remember and probably you suffered in your skin too, that on the pass, only the pointer need to bring in at the ball and also the pointer need to go in the middle of the court. Right now, basketball are telling that it’s better to bring in at the ball from the sideline to let the corridors in the middle where the big guys are running, even the tourist guys at you. Then in this process, what I want is not only try to apply these three seconds, also that anybody who are bringing in at the ball, try to identify exactly what’s the better option. If there are two big guys behind me, probably one good option that we can do is a double drag. Double drag directly, you set the double drag against the big guy. Then if you don’t have one clearly dribble guy controlling the ball so easy, you can play this double drag, but with a handle, not with the dribble. Try to identify this.
Or if you have one big guy, one question that we are trying to promote a lot, is this low passes that many teams are doing, sometimes not with the tourist guy necessarily. Some guy who sealed his own defender to try to promote one overhead pass to the guy. Then try to define this is important. Then when we are practicing this, on this warmup where we are creating this all-ball game, the institutional transition where they need to, and you put it, or one defender, or two defenders, or five defenders. You ask five defenders from a view, okay, play longer for transition. But if you ask one little option to play fast break and try to get some not easy basket, also some kind of fouls, try to run it. Then identify the difference between play transition or play fast break or play five and five for me is important.
Then we stimulate that as much as we can. What I want everybody to be smart. Everybody needs to don’t get your role to the shooter. Don’t get your role to the big guy. Don’t get no. Everybody, one of our goals, try to put the ball as fast as possible in offense. Then from that point, everybody has this kind of knowledge of the pointer, let’s say, on the pass. Then these situations where we are working in the first minute of the practice of a warmup.
Pat 19:23
A quick detour, you mentioned just when there’s two bigs behind that, you know, it’s a good situation to do a double drag. With the double drag, what are you teaching in terms of maybe the location of that first screen, that second screen? Where do you want it? Do you want it staggered? How do you go about just helping players understand the spacing, the timing of the double drag screen?
Joan Plaza 19:42
One of the things that I learned in Boston some years ago, they put some kind of stick on the corner where everybody to feel this absolute corners of the core to increase or to make as weight as possible the core, means that we need to do it as bigger as possible. And then for me, it’s very important that sometimes we can do it this first screen really close to the mid core. Sometimes we need to bring in the ball to the free door line that’s tended to set it. Sometimes we can do it with dribble. Sometimes we can do it with a handoff. Right now, there are some moments that we discovered that it’s better to set the screen one meter away from the half core because everything goes faster. And then you are promoting that if you send the screen in 45 degrees, the majority of the big guys are making heads, for example. And then it’s, let’s say, easy for them to stop you or to try to change your rhythm. When you set the screen almost in a mid core, it’s so difficult because probably they need to change. And if you change and you ask one clearly mismatching merely, you can provoke someone else to forcing you to make a pass. And then I cannot tell you there are only one way, depending on the quality of your dribble or the pointers or even who are setting the screen. One of the questions that right now are imposing more in the NBA and not this as often in Europe is that many times who are setting the first screen is even one perimeter player, not the tallest guys. Just because we are looking, the game is faster and more vertical. Sometimes you need to promote that the guys who are defending you probably maybe could be the best defender. On the first screen, they’re switching. That is one idea so essentially heavy in the basket. Everybody are changing. Everybody can change. I talked in the NBA and even in Europe. Everybody can make a switch defense. You can do it in your roster. You have taller pointers. You have smaller big guys or mobility big guys. Then not everybody can switch. But in any case, it’s true that right now it’s like a fashion. Everybody switch. Why we do it sometimes because maybe it’s, let’s say, easier to teach them to the players because if you need to make head, somebody are bumping to you. You need to rotate with somebody. You can create some kind of confusion or you need one longer process to understand that. And then with all this knowledge, you need to adjust in your offense depending on how they are defending you with the defending flat or the defending drop then provoking another kind of health. Then there are not only one way to offense on this double drag situation like you asked me.
Pat 22:15
One more follow-up question on the double drag. You’ve mentioned that maybe it’s a weaker ball handler, but throwing the pass and then getting a handoff and you’ll see it. A lot this year, I’ve noticed with Bill Bow or Maccabi that they come over that half-court screen and they throw it to the second screener. And I guess what you’ve noticed or what you think, I guess, the advantages for the offense or why we’re seeing maybe more of that as well within the double drag situation.
Joan Plaza 22:38
I like that we are able to combine both means that for sure, even if we will like it, that everybody are stronger with the left or the right, we cannot cheat ourselves. For sure, there are some vertical players that they are stronger one side to another. But it’s true that right now, it’s quite often that you can play this double drag with passes, but also expecting that the memory you can play horns with a debut with the first pass, you go for a handoff and the same guy could play handoff. They re-screen on you, and you ask the second guy on the double drag, you are creating one double drag over one horns option, and then it’s so rich, like I said before, till some years ago. Right now, there are some coaches that begin to do it, but till a really short time ago, only the four and the five or the five and the four ascend the screen. Right now, there are some moments that there are some coaches that they are using, even the two on the first screen, after to see some kind of flare from the moment that you escape from that. Or you can then, it’s so rich, then combine both options with a dribble, with the pass, with the rear screen, even to use reject after you get that handoff, because if it’s so far, the majority of defenders are going under. Then if they’re going under, for sure, it’s so nice for offers directly, but when you get on your screen, the guy is going to be far. Then you can put it with the roller, so easy, then they’re not one single option to use the double drag with or without dribble.
Dan 24:03
Coach, thanks for all your thoughts so far on all this. This has been great. We want to transition now to another segment on the show that we call Start, Sub, or Sit. We’ll give you three options around a topic, ask you to start one, sub one, and sit one. Coach, this first one has to do with the minute distribution or how many minutes players play in a game and your thoughts on your best players and how much they play versus your bench players. And so Start, Sub, or Sit, the most important things that you think about when deciding how many minutes to play your best players. So the first option is the lineup that you want to finish with at the end of the game. The second option is the duration of time that any one player plays in a row. So say three or four minutes and they’re coming out, five minutes, whatever it is. And the third option is when to start subbing. So after two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, any of those things. So Start, Sub, or Sit, those three options when it comes to minute distribution.
Joan Plaza 25:09
For sure. You make a good question, because the majority of the course is going to tell you the three options, no? But the first one, probably one of the most fundamental, it means that which player you’re going to finish the game on the clutch time, on the most important minutes, it’s very important that you are controlling the kind of fouls or the fatigue or the tiredness that the players are accumulating on them. But these two that I discovered, also one stat that said, more or less, I don’t want to cheat you, that 53, 55% of the occasions that you are beginning the game winning, you win the game. And then, of course, we’re going to take care about how we’re going to finish.
To finish with chances to win, you need to arrive to these minutes with chances. I remember that we won my last ever cup with Malaga, and our goal is to arrive to the last five minutes with chances. It means that it doesn’t care that they are winning during some moment that the score is against us. What we want is to arrive still alive in the last five minutes of the game. But for sure, to arrive alive, you need to begin solid. I’m going to choose the first one that you asked me, but the three options are pretty pressing.
Dan 26:26
To follow up on the other two options, the duration of time, how long someone might play, and then when you would start subbing. Which of those two, I guess, would be more important in your eyes and why?
Joan Plaza 26:38
Before we are beginning this conversation we talked about Michael Jordan really short and I used some one question who said a long time ago that you never can play at least in Europe more than seven minutes in a row if you play in both sides of the court if you are just an specialist that you can do whatever defense you can make up your defense because a lot of guys are working for you for sure maybe you can play longer but there are one kind of invisible rule that who said that you will be working in the front court and then the back court giving your best be on a passing line working on different reasons try to make a good track or whatever probably your limit time is seven eight minutes let’s say no then there are some players that they can begin the game really well and they can stay a little longer but many of the players that I coach also in my career they prefer to begin on events and begin a little bit fresh after the first rush of the game then you need to know who has a great empathy in this situation where you need to see how the player they feel more comfortable and I said many times to my player that is a great sign of majority when they are able to ask him for sweets before be tired you understand means that you’re gonna get tired you know your body better than no one else then don’t expect to be exhausted ask me for a sweet before or like in the same way I said many times to my players I like the players who make the previous pass to the assists no not only the assists but don’t focus on to make the final pass, the magnificent pass no try to make something before I’m gonna be really bright not really hard and then in the same terms I want that they know their body better than me and they ask me for sweets
Pat 28:22
With all things being equal, no one’s in foul trouble. You’re in the fourth quarter, you have chances to win. Knowing the finishing lineup you want, at what point do you want them all in the game? Is that five minutes I want this lineup to close? Is that four minutes? Do you have a general guideline if everything is going according to plan that you want to finish with this lineup and how long?
Joan Plaza 28:45
The majority of the coaches, we try to create these situations on our practices and we try to pass the kind of player that they should be on the court. Even what’s our process, it means that if we look in a longer set or we look in our big guys and low post or we look at the guy who is hot in the majority of the situations. But even if you are practicing and you’re converting a lot of time with this, nothing like your games. And then for sure, we have some situations that when we are playing out of bounds in silent or baseline out of bounds, we should know what our priority and not always our priorities to look at the score because we know that probably the opponent is going to focus more on this best score that we’re using this person to promote one easy passes or one backdoor passes to another one. But it’s true that even if you create this atmosphere, I think that we have a pretty good set to finish the games and try to understand the meaning about that.
I think that they are not only one solution, that I cannot tell you. We only have this option every single time. Probably one thing that we are trying to get is from our defense, from our steals, from our stronger situations, means that I divide my defense in five, five levels. Then sometimes I said, right now we need a six on a timer. We need a six, then put on risk, basically no defense. So we’re going to try to promote this easy back it being more aggressive on the passing lines, try to promote that they only making a back doors against our tallest guys behind. Then not only we look in some situations specifically in offense, also in defense, I try to promote that they are giving one step forward in the last minute of the games because it’s when everybody cares that you are more tired and probably a little bit less aggressive.
Pat 30:36
You mentioned that you like to have five levels to your defense and I just like to follow up more on what that means or what the levels are and how you go about maybe teaching or expressing it to the guys or is it just more so in your mind.
Joan Plaza 30:49
Well, there are many ways in terms that they are here in Europe. There are some coaches who are working with really good capacity with a drop defense. It means that big guy stay like a goalkeeper in the middle of the zone. There’s a wedding that somebody coming to you because the majority of the big guys, they don’t have a pretty good average shooting trees eight meters away or seven meters away.
You can drop and you can stay behind. From this point, that would be zero for me. When you’re defending pick and roll, you put your big guy almost below your basket in a similar circle, below the basket, going to be probably zero. Then when you are trying to be a little bit more aggressive and I need to confess you that I don’t use it too much, but I don’t use it too much because I think that you always can teach your big guy to rest in a middle of the zone. Well, going to be more difficult for you when you try to ask in them to make a trap on a bigger role and nine meters away from the back end and they don’t use to, first of all, they are basically we are moving between three levels where we’re defending, for example, flat or we’re defending head or we are trapping in a bigger role or when we are in all those crazy situations where we are chasing a hundred percent and we are collapsing with next, with standing or field switch like I think that the NBA, they said field switch, jumping totally and everybody rotate and these kinds of different levels is what you are demanding is how you are practicing. And then with the same set, we are trying to do it and our practices is this different capacity on our defense. And at the same time, you are forcing that your team are enjoying the defense. And what I said before, it’s not the boring defense that you are defending your own man.
No, no, guys, if I ask him three, probably what I am demanding to you is that after pick and roll, like we need to take care about the roller. The next guy need to stand or even make this field switch. And then everyone needs to contribute and rotate in different ways. Then also these things promote that the players are thinking on defense and join and be generous to avoid close out situations. And this is a little bit like I divided the situation. And then when you ask in six is because you are risky, totally risky. I mean, that don’t just defending your man when you are defending any kind of team down, try to chase him, but try to spring to cut this ball. Even if you lost, but if you lost everybody and the rest of the team going to be able to stop you and you’re going to deal with the, with another guy, but try to be on this level. And then I think that majority of the cases we get it with my teams.
Pat 33:59
All right, Coach, well, maybe that’s a good transition to our next start-subsit for you. This one we call is hard to guard or hard to defend, and it has to do with different types of rolling big men or big men in the pick and roll. So I’ll give you three types of big men and which one would be the hardest to defend, in your opinion. Is it a short rolling big man capable of playing in the short roll? Is it a big man who can pick and pop? Or is it a rim-rolling lob threat big man?
Joan Plaza 34:29
Right now like basketball are promoting right now in basketball we are playing the majority of the teams with five around zero or four around one on the best we play with two big guys right now nobody played with two big guys then right now when you’re playing with five guys open spreading the core as much as you can this the compound situations sounds really good if you can promote that if you ask this kind of talent right now in europe i guess at the beginning you need to adjust your players and then how many players in europe can make this pick and pop with success in terms that not only shooting trees also to pass with criteria you’re looking back doors from the strong side to the weak side to have the chance to even to fake and try to look in one spot up situations you know you need to find different ways and then this pick and pop is so good especially if you ask this kind of players that right now in europe are so difficult to find because the majority of them they are jumping to mba for their own talent but this pick and pop promotes a lot of questions and sometimes you’re promoting mismatch situations where if you are setting the screen and you make a pick and pop but the guy who are using the ball can rolling inside with advantage against the small guy is also good if you want one good passers how many good passers big guys are in europe we can say maybe we have three four five i don’t know try to be generous but we are not stimulating enough our picks to be a good passers we say many times that when you ask one good passer like a big guy you ask two pointers on the court no then we need to be able to afford that there will be guys not only are rolling and game position inside not only looking the show role that is so good bestly for example in barcelona is one of the best taking the shot but also for example when you make this show roll it’s easier to stop from the weak side means that if somebody are standing you are a guy you need to afford that this guy who make this show roll they are able to swing in a ball to the other corner and then this pick and pop if you ask this kind of big guy talented player in there to put one dribble or to make the pass or even if he ask these three capacity it’s terrific but it’s true that in our dreams as a many players that sometimes we are in Disneyland because we imagine that everything is so nice no my big guy can shooting dribble passing no no no don’t cheat yourself i mean that i’m gonna help you to give you skill because it’s so difficult to find a player with this capacity we need to be honest then the majority of the big guys when they are popping they can play handoff on the weak side they can look in a backdoor in the majority cases but their treat to take three point shots is not so often here even in in NBA there are not so many means that i saw right now yogi in denver with this capacity i’m for sure the guy of six years and there are three four five players with this capacity to pick and pop and beat with full three means passing shooting or dribble in Europe we don’t have as many like this
Pat 37:36
What considerations do you think about when, let’s say it’s a big who can pop, really his capacity is to shoot, versus a big who can pop and his capacity is that he can get to another action. So he’s not a shooting threat, but he can get to a handoff or a second side action. And how you think about or what would change then and maybe the way you coverage the initial ball screen with him popping.
Joan Plaza 38:01
What I try to do when you arrive to any club in Europe, especially in NBA, is a little bit different, but you try to work not for specifically that season. It means that you’re trying to create some kind of a period of the club for three, four years, even longer. I’ve been in Malaga five years, in Madrid, I was four years. What I do pretend is try to grow in with the same group or the majority of the groups at the same time. Then what is true that on defense, you are not the same skills that you are trying, like I said before, that your players enjoy, blah, blah, blah. But it’s true that it’s quite important that everybody understands that right now, basketball are played many times. I saw always in Phoenix when I’ve been there, but also last day when I watched in Fenerbahce, they are playing with a big guys. Then when they’re playing with big guys or you adjust to your opponent, and then you play also with you one, four, like a five, one, three, like a four or whatever you said, or you are lost because the majority of the situations they’re creating big mismatch. Then the biggest problem another time is that even if they’re decorating this mismatch, we don’t have enough good passers to make one currently pass against one small guy if you are running inside, for example. If you’re popping the majority of the situation, like you said, they are playing handle or they are passing. Then on defense, it’s true that I don’t want to give them an easy solution to my players. Then on defense, what I want, try to begin the season, try to be responsible about your own guy. I talk a lot with my players that we need to promote individual responsibility. You’re defending that guy. Don’t look at easy solution, ask him for sweet. We’re going to sweet for sure. Basketball requires that you sweet it. Don’t sweet for free. Sweet because when you put in the best effort, try to chasing this guy when you’re going through the screens, whatever. Finally, you need to be able and you two has a good communication. We have no weak side to switching, blah, blah, blah, but try to make the best effort to take care about your men because if not, when you play against a team like you, probably you are able to get some advantage. But when you play with teams with a better roster than you or richer than you or with a better or whatever you said, you need to be able to don’t sweet for free. If you sweet, it’s so easy and you have one good point, guys, like Todos, for sure you did. This Todos is going to put the ball to a roller and they’re going to take all three throws or one easy bucket in your face and then try to don’t sweet for free, but just on terms to create this good habit to give your best on the air force, for sure, technically. When I write the most important period of the season in terms of playoff or in terms of kind of round robin or king scab or whatever you want to set, then you need to also be able to practice this and other options like a sweet or triple sweet or try to keep your mismatch against one Todos guy. Here in Europe, for example, there are many teams that they are switching, but like I tell you, there are three, four, let’s say five great pointers who even defended for a Todos guy. They can find a hole to put in more guy than you. Then the people are switching just to create confusion. They are not switching because they think they are the best. No, they are switching because they are trying to get the benefits against the mistakes of the low capacity about some of the players to release this change.
Then my priority on defense is try to begin with no sweet defense. Be responsible for your own guy. Try to be in the right way. If you are defending top block, you need to prevent that this guy give you a back door. If you go top block, try to go over the screens, even if you’re a big guy giving you a short step out to delay a little bit their reception, whatever, you need to switch, switch it, but just switch, not just because it is the more comfortable solution, not just because you are lazy, not just, no, no, try to be proactive in your defense and enjoy it.
And if you are proactive and you cannot arrive for sure, the rest of the players, the all four guys, like in a shield drill, gonna be able to rotate with you while you adjust to one third of four players in the other corner. But I tried to create this sensation. And then with this pick and pop situations, if you don’t pick and pop, always you are the 10 that the guy on the 45 degrees, they are rotating, standing or making this feeling sweet that we said, and they’re rotating and attack with a big guy. Then how many good testers are in every team? I don’t know if I asked you, maybe you are so generous, or you are in Disneyland and you’re going to tell me five players, not true. In the majority of the five starters, or not five starters, five players that you keep in the core, there are one or two good tester, let’s say, then if you’re promoting that this guy who has this talent to finish or to dribble, you’re forcing to pass, this pass are not the first straight of this player, then when you’re promoting that they’re doing something that is not usual of them, finally, you get some mistake, or you’ve forced some mistake for preventing you to steal or to delay or to force one difficult shot at the end.
Pat 43:09
Let’s say with good passers, how do you think about then defending them? If it’s a good passing point guard, what are your considerations then if you’re worried about their pass and your level of aggression on them?
Joan Plaza 43:21
I should give you one example. Many times, also in the NBA, it’s happy it is the same in Europe and the NBA or Australia or whatever we can talk. When you are defending one big guy, the majority of the big guys are defending giving you a second, giving you three or four meters. Because you are not a good shooter and social passer, I can give you three, four meters. OK, this is fine if you’re thinking that you play with one bad offensive player.
But when you’re going to play against on the top games, on the more difficult games, probably going to find one good passer, one good shooter. And then one of the questions that I force to my big players, and sometimes they don’t understand, that I want that even if they are not a good shooter and social passer, I want that they put pressure, pressure with your arm distance, but putting pressure on the ball, yes, because whatever one that they’re receiving and even if they don’t have the capacity to take the threes, I don’t want that they play for free handoff. I don’t want that they’re looking at this easy passes. If you put this pressure against one taller guy, for example, it’s so difficult that they have the habit or the time or the space to make a good pass. And then we are not applying the same with a pointer, but it’s true that we are trying to make a kind of scrambled difference. It means that sometimes we’re putting a lot of pressure. We’re beginning the season, don’t giving a weak side, like many teams are doing. But we want that we are controlling both sides, try to put our hand like a mirror, like when we are in a high school, that our coach has said, put your hand in front of the ball. Okay, let’s put pressure on the ball, but don’t be ingenuous. It means that if you put too much pressure, this guy is going to beat you so easy. And what I want that they making this kind of difference where they need to know exactly for sure, inviting to this worse hand or putting some pressure or when they suffer to receive far from the ball. Many times I said to my defender players that we want that anybody who will finish an easy layup, they need to make three dribbles. It means that, no, with one you finish. And then, okay, maybe you can not steal the ball, but what I want that this guy, if he gonna beat you, he gonna beat you using three dribbles. And then with three dribbles, not only beating you like a defender, they beating also all the rest of the players mean that what I want that the first line of the passers always need to be able to deny passing lines, but also they need to have the capacity to rotate with you, to stand totally to make a difference to it and rotate with you. And then with three, there are many persons who are mistaken, not only the guy who are defending one on one. And then I promoted them to take this kind of different moment where they can put a lot of pressure. Sometimes they can jump in behind when you are defending a Spanish pick and roll, there are many person that they are switching between two perimeter players. And sometimes maybe it’s better that you are chasing 100%. The contribution of the third line for me is so important too. There are different terms, but I cannot tell you that only one way to work it.
Dan 46:17
Absolutely. Coach, you’re off the start- sub – sit hot seat. Thanks for playing that game with us. That was a lot of fun.
Coach, we’ve got one last question for you to close the show, but before we do, thank you very much for coming on and for all your thoughts. This was really great, so thank you.
Joan Plaza 46:32
Thanks to all of you, and thanks to you to promote this side of the basketball that the majority of us, we are forgetting so often.
Dan 46:40
Coach, our final question for you that we ask all the guests is what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach?
Joan Plaza 46:48
There are plenty, but I can explain you one that I remember that I went to several clinics now where the coaches when I am a younger coach, they explained their basketball. And there are one coach that was Mosid Almarco, it’s the Serbian coach who wants I think that through the illness in a really short period, that they came to Badalona to make this clinic. And the organization asked me if I can be ready with one question at the end of the clinic, because nobody are brave enough to make a question at the end. When you are making a clinic, everybody said, any question? And everybody set up just because everybody’s shy or because you’re scared to be a really stupid question, blah, blah, blah. And then the person who organized this clinic in Badalona is demanding me, can you prepare one question? But why do you want to say, okay, but to prepare something? Okay, sounds good. And then I prepare some question. If you ask me which question I do it, I don’t remember. But I make this question for this coach. And at the end of this clinic, this coach coming to me and said, Do you want to work with me?
And I am really younger coach in this process that tomorrow, tell me where I need to go, I’m going to be wherever you are tomorrow. Then that question was important for me. But like inversion, so that the priority of my life, when you born here in Barcelona, specifically in Badalona, we said here in Badalona, that everybody born with one basketball under his arms, you know, that normally the sentence said that you born with a breath under your arm. I don’t know, you said this in the United States, but in Europe, we said that when you ask one baby, this baby came with one breath in terms of happiness. In Badalona, we said that the babies brings with one basketball under his arm, you know, meant to be coach or player or even referee, but coaching in Badalona is like crazy. Then I remember that when I said to my parents, I want to be coach, and then they said, Okay, okay, guy, you are dreaming.
No, what I did is to be persistent. I take a lot of time. I work in another question because I came from a long family with six brothers and sisters. And then we cannot live in about what we are dreaming for. But finally, persisting going to a lot of cleaning, putting my professional life events over my personal life that I know that is not correct, but it is my passion, like I said before. Finally, after almost three years career, Real Madrid gave me the chance to be head coach.
Maybe it’s not the best example right now, because the majority of the coaches right now they want to immediately get responsibilities to get success to win money, whatever. I spent maybe 20 years just coaching small guys, small girls to whatever, finding the core, bring the players to their own home. And finally, the success arrived when somebody throws on you. But it’s not easy nowadays because everybody wants to improve. Then to invert all this time to coaching young guys, give me the chance or the security to coach right now in a professional way. And then my suggestion to everybody is that don’t stress yourself when you will to hurry up so easy, take your time, invert your period, learn from everybody like I did.
And maybe you don’t need to expect 30 years like me, but maybe in 10 or 12 years, you can arrive to the top. And then I’m really happy when somebody talked about my background. Some persons forget that I go during 20 years, the young guys, that many of them are going to the better teams in Europe or in NBA. For me this period of time, give me a lot of majority on my knowledge and permit me to finally arrive to this point. It’s my passion, my life.
Dan 50:44
All right, Pat, let’s hop right into this. Coach Plaza, pleasure to have on. Unbelievable pedigree as a coach. Coaching three different countries at the highest of levels and much success. Coach of the year, different places.
And so one of the things you and I talked about before the show was potentially getting into a little bit behind the scenes on his practice methodology and some coaches that we know that know him well had said Coach Plaza’s always had interesting thoughts on practice methodology, building up a team, not always just using five on five all the time to teach but breaking things down into smaller groups, which he got into. And so we just thought, you know, for the first bucket that would be interesting place to start as far as someone like him who’s had so much success is known as a brilliant tactician. Like how do you think about the building blocks if you’re not gonna rely super heavily on five on five? Yeah, it was.
Pat 51:42
It’s fun to explore kind of the why, you know, he mentioned not focusing on five and five so much earlier in the season, and it all kind of stemmed from that he wants to place an emphasis on the player development or improving his players. And he’s found that to do that, you have to focus on the details.
He mentioned the ABCs that sometimes we, as coaches, with, of course, the need to win and get into like the group tactics. And as he said, like the LMNOs we start focusing on and kind of forget the ABCs, which makes a lot of sense within like the two on twos or three on threes. You can really teach the details. He talked about like flipping the screen, so just like understanding the relationships. I think that was another thing we were kind of interested in with his methodology of preferring not to go so much five on five that the ability to develop these relationships, the synergies between two-man groups, three-man groups. And like he said, it all kind of stemmed from the fact that he wanted to divert time to practice to help improve his players. And that’s what he recruited them to come in for, that he was going to try to get them better. And it does make sense.
I think from five on five, he started looking at stuff from a tactical standpoint, but going two on two, you can really hit on the skills and the details of screen setting, you know, reads, off-ball reads, cutting. You know, we had a good conversation about just off-ball work.
Dan 53:05
Sure, and he had mentioned in his past when he recruits them that he talks about the player development piece and how important that is. And so they feel that 5 on 5, like you just mentioned, you can just get more tactical, more team, more flow, philosophy, where I know players really feel like you’re invested when there’s these more one-on-one to three-on-three pieces.
And like you mentioned, the ability as a coach to spend time really getting the details right, of course, is going to help them when you get to 5 on 5 as well. But I did like also on top of all that stuff, he put in the caveat that sometimes knowing your team and knowing players and they’re saying, hey, we’d like to play 5 on 5 and if they’re going to play hard and if the practice is going to be good or whatever it is, then okay, maybe we’ll play more 5 on 5 just so you know, the team feels good about themselves.
Pat 53:59
And he mentioned to the teams that want to go five on five, maybe those teams, you can do that when you have smarter players, but in his position, those usually come with a couple extra zeros behind them. So the other factor is, yeah, with, of course, a young team or a lower budget team where you do have to spend some time teaching these guys and developing these guys.
And that’s probably going to be more in a smaller group setting rather than let’s just go five on five all the time, or they’re just there’s bodies on the courts and they’re struggling to make reads. Yep. A fact of the matter kind of situation he faces with depending on club size and budget that you have to also consider with how you think about preparing or practicing.
Dan 54:39
Yeah, 100%. And a couple other little things that he put in there on top of that piece hit on off ball creation of advantages, cutting screen, things like that, like kind of working on those things. I did like he threw in there, the flare screen, they looked at like 70% of the time, the flare screener was the one that was the recipient of either slip or on a switch or mess, you know, whatever is there able to pop back. And so you and I love flares, obviously.
And so getting a quick little flare screen discussion in there. And then I also liked, we got into his thoughts on some transition, three seconds to cross half court, like the speed and the pace in which trying to get the ball past half court and then flowed into a drag screen, double drag screen conversation with different reads, different options, throw a heads, you know, all those things, which was a quick detour a little bit, but was nice to kind of hear within all this get into some transition thoughts.
Pat 55:36
Yeah, I enjoyed the 77 or the double drag situation because I have been noticing it a lot with the throw-a-heads and throwing it to the first man. They’re usually going to go under, you can flip it and now you’re into like a horns or, you know, beating the under by throwing the ball ahead to the second man and attacking out of there and where to screen, how to screen, but all the different variations and thinking about, as he mentioned, kind of stacking some actions within in a case. It doesn’t have to be just a straight double drag ball screen. Like you said, turn into horns, you can turn into some get stuff and start playing with some different things out of that and just making an already tough situation harder to guard.
Dan 56:12
And he mentioned too, it doesn’t matter if it’s the four and five setting the drag. And just the fact that there’s two screens come in just complicated for the defense. And he also threw in as well. He mentioned that earlier in his career, he wanted them to push the ball down towards the 45 before having it, but now he’s realized they just passed half court a little bit. Go ahead, let’s send those screens because there’s just so much more space and ability for guys to reject or make a play. And so we’ve just seen a lot, NBA, Europe, college, that single or double drag, just a nice way to enter into a lot of different things like he mentioned. And it also doesn’t need to be like a perfect setup right away either.
Pat 56:54
I agree. I mean, I think that’s why that first screen just being a little past half court, it’s not, of course, if you can hit the defender all the better, but it’s a really good cone for that defender. Like if he has to go under now, he’s still chasing or late to the second screen. So I think the confusion that first screen can create and just the difficulty it creates in the second screen, which is where maybe you look to attack more so because the second screen will now be in that attacking area. I think it’s interesting with what we seen was setting that first screen so high that it’s not necessarily about really trying to stick the defender.
Dan 57:25
Yeah, I’m going to go way back here. Coach Steve Donahue from Penn. This is our first season of the podcast. He talked about the higher up on the floor, the less he wants his players to worry about the right decision or having to have things perfect. Obviously, as you get deeper towards the basket, the more a little details, of course, matter. But he had mentioned they’re talking more about some of the Princeton sets are flowing into the offense, not wanting players to get hung up on making the exact correct read right by half court, but just flow into it, make a decision, make a read and flow because the defense is having a hard time matching up if we get into it quickly. And it reminded me a little bit of this here where whatever the combination is, whatever happens after a missed shot, if two bigs that are going to set the double drag, or if your two and three happen, just go at the ball, we can play out of our concepts out of it. Yeah, he mentioned the importance that it keeps
Pat 58:21
The pace, keeps the pace, keep it vertical versus you mentioned he alluded to getting it down to the free throw line extended and then the screen coming over where you’ve kind of put yourself on the sideline, they can hedge it now and the defense is now kind of dictating terms and clogging up the offense.
Dan 58:37
Yeah. And I think this is, I guess, as we’re just talking this out, you and I now, but coach Modi Maor month or so ago, we also got into the dragstream conversation and some details there too, about like when to slip if you’re coming from above the screen versus when to maybe wait and flip it or when to set it up. But the dragstream read also with, is there anybody in the corner for the ball handler? And if there isn’t, maybe you can just keep pushing that thing all the way below the free throw line. And now that’s really where he wanted to have that screen tight, force the over, really think about setting the screen versus higher up. You’re either slipping or just getting out. So the pace of all this, I think also coach Pedro Martinez from Backseat Man rests up really good with that early transition, either flipping the screen or dragging it towards an empty side.
Pat 59:24
You bring up a good point with the, I like that empty side, filled side consideration and how that plays a role in corner filled. Like he said, then if we’re in a 77, set it a little bit higher or slip out so you can get some rejects. But if it’s empty, driving it down like Coach Mayore said, so then you can free up the space at the nail and hopefully get over the top and remove the nail defender there, create more space between him and the bigger the other man in the slot position.
Dan 59:50
This is our type of wrap up where we just continue to just talk about deeper and deeper details where more, if you’re still listening at this point, thank you.
Pat 59:58
That’s why you drag screen situations. Yeah, exactly.
Dan 01:00:03
Let’s move to start, sub, or sit, and let’s start with the minute distribution, and we asked him that question because he’s been known to play a lot of guys in a band, meaning 18 to 23, 24 minutes for his best players. He’s not a heavy load coach in his past as far as his best players, and so I wanted to ask about that, and I’ll just start with his start. For me, obviously, it was interesting to just get into his mind about who’s going to finish the game, and then working backwards from there as far as, okay, if you want them to play the last, like you asked, how long, four or five minutes, plus or minus, then if they’re going to play 23, 24 minutes only, then where do they need to sub out, how do you think about the rest of the game, and a lot of the cool nuggets in there, about minute distribution, and playing hard on both ends of the floor, and he made a comment about, I think, in Europe you can only play seven, eight minutes straight if you’re playing both ends of the floor hard, and so good stuff in there.
Pat 01:01:06
Yeah, and we were looking forward to this conversation because he has an emphasis on making sure he’s got guys fresh in at the end of the game. So I think kind of knew the start would be the finishing lineup and just working backwards from there. This reminded me of our conversation with Coach Martin Schiller, and we had a really good in-depth conversation just about all the considerations with substitution and you followed up to it and he brought up the importance of starting as well, but what a starting lineup looks like and if you want to start them in the first half, second half, how do you finish with them, isn’t always the cleanest of scenarios. So I would recommend going back to that conversation once more. But I do like when we talked about when he was mentoring, you’re going to play both ends, they get seven to eight minutes and he’s found it’s kind of the max they can go and he talked to about his five levels of defense, especially the finishing to what you need to go. You call it a six or basically you’re really being aggressive in the lanes, trying to gamble some more, but I like that little nugget within it, just ways to convey to your team, I guess, your level of aggression, whether it’s a zero, you mentioned could be like a drop, a goalkeeper, and then always find an interest in just tidbits of how coaches try to communicate or convey or think about levels of aggression and kind of communicating to their teams what they’re trying to accomplish at what point of the game or with what coverage this means.
Dan 01:02:27
A quick miss for me on this conversation was getting into the psychological parts of these things because going back to the first bucket when he talked about players going to his programs and his focus and emphasis on player development and helping them in their careers to be better players so that they can get better contracts or whatnot. And then if you’re only playing though 20 minutes, you know, half a game, likely your stats are not going to be as high as, you know, a guy obviously just playing 32-34 minutes on some of those teams.
And so maybe more from like a player team management standpoint, I wish I would have followed up more on just if you’re going to play a lot of players in this 18 to 24 minute band and your best players are nightly playing 24-25. How does that sit? How does that work with them maybe not having the stats as higher minute guys in the league and, you know, going on their careers? And I don’t know, just, I’m sure he would have had interesting thoughts on that.
Pat 01:03:32
He did mention too like his desire not to be reliant on one guy who needs to score 40. It’s marrying his substitution pattern to his philosophy of player development and that they’re not going to maybe have the budget to get just the killer you know the guy who’s like all right well he’s going to give us 25 pretty much every night so I’m going to play in 30 minutes but rather come here we’re going to develop you and as you see like I play eight guys and so you’re going to get the minutes and I can see where he’s marrying his substitution or is playing time to his philosophy that he wants to develop these guys and of course you got to eventually put them on the court we had a good conversation too with coach Vizzotti out of the French second league too about you got to put these guys on the court and development can only take you so far in practice that you need to put them on the court for them to truly develop and like he said hopefully grow them to bigger contracts bigger clubs that would be also my guess hit to your follow-up and I think he would have spoke really well on why he kind of settled on this minutes distribution and kind of giving everyone the chance to play 18 to 23 minutes
Dan 01:04:37
Yeah, the second start sub sit, I think just a fun one that we know coaches at his level are talking about, thinking about all the time, which is what do you do with the dynamic nature of short pop and long rolling big?
Pat 01:04:51
The conversation, I like where it ended with just how do you defend pastors because he eluded very rarely. Are you going to find a guy who can pop and shoot and dribble and pass? And it’s more understanding what the one capability is and kind of makes, in a sense, a little bit easier knowing what you need to take away versus if they can do all three. You kept eluding to like the passing and so there’s falling up. If you have great pastors, how you think about defending then a pastor and what that does to a pick and roll coverage or how you defend them off ball. And, you know, I wrote down one thing that I thought was really interesting that he said, you know, one-on-one defense, like the goal should be like the offense player needs three dribbles to beat the defense, I thought. It was interesting and I enjoyed his thoughts as he kind of elaborated on that and what that meant to him.
Dan 01:05:38
Yeah, really took that out as far as being able to defend three dribbles and if they get beat after the third dribble, it’s not so much that player that it’s on, it’s on the whole team because at that point you should have help side, somebody stunting whatever it is, your philosophy is. So I like that a lot. I wasn’t overly surprised, but I was a little surprised that the short roll wasn’t higher, I guess, for him or the pop in the short roll sometimes, there’s similar elements to it because you’re basically opening a space to play the next action, but I guess another quick miss for me was just going down the rabbit hole of the short roll and I feel like over the course of his career, it’s gotten to be more and more of a thing, I think. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel like back in the early 2000s, you just had more rim rolling bigs, like you’re just rolling, rolling, rolling, and then all of a sudden now you’re getting a little bit more of a skilled big where they are now sitting in that short roll pocket and then you’ve got to defend the corner cut and drift or whatever the million things that you can do off of it and I just wonder about his progression as a coach trying to defend that as well, would have just maybe been interesting too to get into.
Pat 01:06:45
He mentioned the importance of teaching passing for these skills, because if you have a big that can pass out of the short roll, I think it’s just like an audit. It’s a killer nightmare. You know, I got the impression where he thought the pop, there was more bigs with that capacity versus bigs that can operate in the short roll, but you’re right, the ones who can, it’s a nightmare. I always think, you know, it looks so easy when teams do it on film, not easy, but it looks so nice and clean. And we always go back to the conversation of like, even against someone offense, you know, hit the high post and just the typical deal of operating out of that high post area when at times it’s like a 360 defense around you, you know, behind you. Now you’re not so much in a pick and roll, but coming from your peripheral vision, it’s not just the cleanest of reads, even though you are in a threatening area.
Dan 01:07:26
Yeah, absolutely. So as we wrap up here, I’ve given a couple of quick kind of misses, not from Coach Plaza, but for myself on just other areas, anything from your end.
Pat 01:07:36
And the first bucket, he mentioned his emphasis in doing shorter drills and making obviously the drills competitive. So I would have liked to have followed up more on how he just tries to make your team enjoy defense. And I like those two thoughts of, yeah, okay, make it short and sweet, like getting to the point, get out, and then of course with anything, make sure it’s competitive so they’re competing and they don’t realize they’re doing a defensive drill. So like those two thoughts would have loved to have followed up a little bit more on it.
Dan 01:08:01
I couldn’t agree more, trying to sell your team on defense and that level six defense too I’m sure is fun to sell for your full out denial. Well, once again, we thank Coach Plaza for coming on and sharing all his thoughts and thanks to everybody for listening and we’ll see you next time.
Pat 01:08:23
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please make sure to visit slappingglass.com for more information on the free newsletter, Slapping Glass Plus, and much more. Have a great week coaching, and we’ll see you next time on Slapping Glass.