Slappin’ Glass sits down this week with the Head Coach of Michigan State WBB, Robyn Fralick! In this terrific discussion Coach Fralick discusses their unique style of play, the toughness needed to play with pace, operating through the post, and dives into making decisions as a Head Coach, and defensive transition during the always fun “Start, Sub, or Sit?!”
Transcript
Robyn Fralick 00:00
Communication is my number one job. And one of my guiding quotes, and I think about a lot, because no matter how many hard conversations you’ve had, they’re always hard.
And I think sometimes that’s underestimated, even, you know, as a leader, there is always an emotional component that make those challenging. But one of my favorite quotes is clear is kind. And I think being really clear is kind with players, with staff, with expectations. We’re all better when we have a real understanding of what we’re supposed to do.
Dan 02:03
And now, please enjoy our conversation with coach, Robin Fralick. Coach congratulations on a terrific first year at Michigan State, it was great for us to connect last summer at a coaching clinic and have this kind of comeback full circle so thanks for making the time and congratulations.
Robyn Fralick 02:23
Thanks so much for having me. I’m really honored to be here.
Dan 02:26
Thank you, I actually appreciate that. So coach, we wanted to start with this and we were going through all of your analytics the last couple of days as we were prepping and the offensive side of the ball for you guys is just tremendous when you look at your stats and all that. And also there’s a quote that you have in an article earlier in the year that said that you play with a unique pace and a unique way that you all share the ball offensively and kind of how that bleeds into your offensive system. So we wanted to start by asking you about that quote and about your thoughts on how you build out your whole system through that.
Robyn Fralick 03:01
Well, I think playing fast is quite trendy, and I think it’s a word used a lot in coaching, and we play fast, we play fast. But the reality is a lot of people really don’t. I think it’s something that has to be trained every day. There has to be mentality around it every day. We talk a lot in our program about everybody says they wanna play fast until it’s time to play fast, because the commitment it requires is a big one. It’s a team requirement, it’s an energy requirement. Pace only works if five people move together in that. Pace only works if five people commit to the toughness and the connectedness it takes to do it right and to do it well. So I think it’s unique in that we preach it, but we live it, and the way we play, we make a big deal about it from a cultural perspective, from a practice perspective, from a film perspective, but we’re gonna always try to fight for the best shot. And to do that, you gotta share the ball. And I think that when that becomes central to your team, when it becomes central to the huddle, the ball has energy and it becomes a really fun part of the game. Because kids know the ball is gonna come back to them too. One thing we work really hard at is trying to not have our players chase the ball, trusting that it’ll find the right person. But I think what sticks out with what we do and how we teach it is we do it every day. We stick to it every day. And over time, you can get better at it.
Dan 04:26
Stay with the pace for a second. Are there numbers you want to hit of how fast the ball crosses half quarter, how quickly you want to get into the offensive flow?
Robyn Fralick 04:36
Not really. Interestingly, we do pay a lot of attention to analytics from a self-scouting perspective and obviously a opponent scouting perspective, but no, I don’t want to get too caught up into that. I think the bigger piece is it’s just a way we train and it’s just a way we practice. But the reality is there’s times where you can attack with pace and it doesn’t mean you’re going to get a good early shot. And we’re fine with that, but we’re trying to always put the defense in tough situations and rotations and help situations. And sometimes that gets you a fast shot and sometimes you still need three more reversals to get a good shot. But we focus mostly on getting a great shot for the team and not necessarily a time window for that.
Pat 05:20
You mentioned the mentality of playing fast, and you said there’s a toughness that’s required to do it well. What is, in your opinion, the toughness piece of playing with pace?
Robyn Fralick 05:30
Well, five people have to do it. If three people do it, you’re not in any advantage. You know, if four people do it, you’re not in any advantage. But if you can get all five to commit to what good conversion looks like, something we talk a lot about as staff when we’re watching film of ourselves or of our opponents, really good teams do something in conversion, right? Really good teams, when the ball gets shot, they do something. Whether that’s box out, there’s an immediacy to what they’re doing next. So, you know, that’s the same with offensive conversion. If you want to be really good at playing with pace the minute there is a conversion of the ball, you have to know exactly what you’re doing to do it quickly and to do it well. So that’s something we work on. But I do laugh. You know, everybody says they want to play fast till time to play fast. And then to do that, you’ve got to be committed to it. You’ve got to be in great shape. And you have to be elite when the ball converts.
Pat 06:30
And that conversion period or the offensive conversion, what are you trying to teach or instill in your players?
Robyn Fralick 06:36
Well, I think the biggest thing is for people to play fast, they have to know what they’re supposed to do. You have to have automatic habits and what you’re supposed to do. So in our system, we just try to keep it really, really simple of the spots you’re supposed to get to. We have a lot of interchangeability within our positions. You know, we have multiple people who will bring the bundle up, but with that, everybody still knows where they need to go, even if we have multiple ball handlers, bringing it up off miss shots. So I think a big part of playing fast is having an automatic response of knowing what you’re supposed to do, and then being able to play out of that spacing without having to rethink or reset.
Dan 07:17
The interesting part for me when looking at your guys’s analytics and watching film of you this year is it’s not just the pace that you play up, but then it’s the hyper efficiency of all your numbers this year and your teams in the past is you are then also getting great shots through it. And I guess then for you layering that on top with your team of how then you’re going to do both.
Robyn Fralick 07:40
You know, interestingly, I think it’s just something so commonplace of what we coach. It doesn’t feel like a critique, right? Because I think sometimes as coaches, we can be really cautious of, I don’t want to make a player confident, right? Or I don’t want to make somebody unaggressive. But for us, it’s just great shot, a great shot doesn’t always go in. And that’s okay, right? Those are shots that over the course of the game, we want, or get a better shot. You know, I don’t scream out bad shot. But something we’re coaching all the time is hey, get a better shot, we can get a better shot. And good players can take bad shots, right? And for each player, what a good shot looks like is a little bit different. Within our system, there’s shots that we get a lot. But for each player, that looks a little different depending on how efficient you are and how consistently you make them. So those are things we just as a staff, it’s just part of every day. That’s part of film. It’s part of practice. And I think for our team, they get really comfortable in what shots we want, and shots we don’t want. But it’s not a critique or we don’t want to make players unconfident. I think aggressive players are great players, right? I always say when in doubt, be aggressive, that’s the mentality we want out of kids. And then we’re always challenging them to continue to improve because the better they are at shooting in different shots, the better those shots are for us.
Dan 09:05
Talk about your three-point attempts or three-point shots for a second because you were one of the most efficient teams there as well this year and I guess teaching and thinking about what types of threes you want, where those come from too within your offense.
Robyn Fralick 09:21
Credit to the team. I thought that our team spent a lot of time in the gym and credit to my staff because my staff is on the court with our kids a lot. Shooting, just because you’re open from three doesn’t mean it goes in, right? You want to get open shots, but you’ve got to be able to make shots. You know, there’s some layers to it. I think from a systematic perspective, you have to have a plan for what shooting looks like in your program. What are the expectations of how many shots you’re going to make? What are the expectations of daily shooting? And I think there has to be a really clear system around that. So start there, right? Because in coaching, your offense can create good shots, but no one can make them. Still not very effective. So step one is you’ve got to have kids that are confident, open shooters, right? We want to be able to make open shots. So finding a systematic approach to where your team understands what shooting looks like every day and every week. The second piece to that is how do you create good shots? And for us, inside out threes, those are great shots. Inside out skip threes, skip threes in transition, they’re just better shots. Again, the zones, you know, if you look at top to top threes, as opposed to inside out threes, the percentage difference is staggering. It’s not necessarily that it’s better, we’re shooters, it’s just not as good of a three. So we talk a lot about inside out threes, we talk a lot about skip threes in our transition, how can we attack and get to the paint to either create an advantage to score or create an advantage where we’re creating an inside out three. So, and that’s not just us. You look statistically across women’s basketball, men’s basketball, pro basketball, they’re better shots. So we’ve got to find ways to make better shots. And then we’ve got to have kids who can make them. You got to put those two together.
Pat 11:14
If I can dig a little bit deeper on your systematic approach to shooting?
Robyn Fralick 11:18
Well, we’re really fortunate here at Michigan State, this is all the places I’ve worked, this is the first place we’ve ever had this. We have the shot tracker, which are these little microchips that you can have put in this kind of little plastic case and they tie them on their shoes. So we can literally track all the shots they take. So we tell our team, if you’re in the gym and you’re shooting, that’s on. Because everything we do is going to be accounted for. In coaching, we’ve heard, you know, you’ve been in it long enough, you hear all the, oh yeah, I shoot late at night or, you know, and I don’t care when you shoot, but this now holds, there’s always an accountability to it because if you’re shooting, it’s on. That was one of the first things when I got here, that was something that was here. So that’s a great start, right, to being able to create accountability in shooting. And then our kids get printouts every week, it’s an app on their phone, and then they get printouts every week of their shooting. So it gives them their percentages, their shot charts, how many shots they took, from where. So there’s this constant feedback with that. And I think we’re all a little more accountable when we’re getting consistent feedback, when our teammates are as well. So for us, that’s been a huge part of our systematic shooting is we just track it and we pay a lot of attention to it. And kids like that. They get excited when they begin to see that they’re shooting more, and they’re shooting better. That’s one of the ways we do it.
Pat 12:46
But then shooting and developing your shooters in a player development session when your coaches are with them, what are you guys thinking about in terms of the quality of reps versus the quantity of reps?
Robyn Fralick 15:33
I’ve been fortunate to coach a lot of good post players from my time as a division two head coach to a mid major to this season and all different kinds. One thing that we work a lot on with our posts is a versatility piece because we do love, it’s an inside touch, right? It’s a paint touch. And we are fortunate this year, Julia, who had never really played that spot before we moved her into that spot. She’s incredibly versatile and a really good passer. So we felt like anytime we could get an early paint touch and early post touch, she had an ability to score or she had an ability to draw help. And once again, good offensive spacing, good offenses, making defense rotate. And we felt like she was able to do that a lot. And a big part of that is she was such a threat to score.
Dan 16:21
The movement and spacing around, you know, being unpredictable, the sort of off-ball cuts and things like that, I just would love to know your thoughts on how much spacing versus cutting versus screening you want in your system and how varied it is based off of just a read or what you want as a coach.
Robyn Fralick 16:38
We play out of concepts and we work on it all the time because it’s hard to guard when you don’t know what’s going to happen, but it’s also hard to be effective offensively if you don’t know what’s going to happen. So you have to really work on that where your team becomes comfortable within that. And a big part of it is we do a lot of four out one in, but we play out of concepts. So there is a freedom, but with concepts and a structure, and that takes a lot of work to get good at because what do you do when the ball goes in, right? What do you do when the ball goes top to top? What do you do to off a skip, right? Those are all things that are going to happen throughout a possession, but we also have to move together orderly for it to be effective. So we do a lot of whole, part, whole, part, whole, um, working on a lot of the things we’re going to see, and we got to make sure that as a team, we’re streamlined in understanding the concepts of what happens when the ball goes to different spots.
Pat 17:38
Coach, just following up on development concepts, you mentioned the whole part whole. What do you go to when you’re in a practicing and developing the concepts? What is important to you when developing them and repping with your players so there actually is true retention and recognition of what concept we can get to or what concept we’re in now?
Robyn Fralick 17:57
Well, same thing, multi-layered. To be good out of motion offense, you have to have good players. Step one, player development, right? You got to have kids that can pass, shoot, and dribble. Because if you can’t pass, shoot, and dribble, not very effective. So step one is player development and putting them in situations to be able to make decisions. Step two is breaking it down. So we’ll do a lot of three on three out of our motion, out of our four-out-one in. And we’ll do a lot of four on four. Sorry. Every time the ball goes into the post, boom, this is what we’re doing. So we’re working on it over and over and over and over again. All right, every time, this time, every time we’re playing off the skip, OK, so now what are we doing? Till it becomes automatic habits. I mean, our goal as a coaching staff is to create automatic habits where our kids are playing and not thinking and playing connected collectively. That’s really hard. And you have to be intentional about over and over and over and over and over again. And I’m watching the NBA playoffs right now, and they do a lot of simple stuff really, really well. They’re really good players. But there is a long process of being effective at that. I think what happens a lot is sometimes it’s easy to veer away from it. I know for me coming in new this year at times, I’m like, ah, is this going to work? But if you stick with it eventually, and it’s what you do over and over again, eventually it clicks.
Pat 19:27
With the player development piece, just what have you learned about getting better decision makers, training decision making?
Robyn Fralick 19:33
I just think you have to change where help comes from. You know, I think so much of good basketball and good decision making is being able to create an advantage, step one, keep an advantage, step two, and then recognize where help came from. Because help, depending on who you’re playing comes from all different spots. And good decision making can see where help came from, right? And we can attack and pass from where help came from, or if it doesn’t come, now you’ve got to be able to create an advantage and keep an advantage.
Dan 20:04
Coach, this has been awesome so far. Thanks for all your thoughts there. We want to transition now to a segment on the show that we call Start, Sub, or Sit. And so we’ll give you three options around a topic, ask you to start one, sub one, sit one. So if you’re ready, we’ll dive into this first one.
Robyn Fralick 20:19
I’m ready.
Dan 20:20
The first one has to do with the art of problem solving and getting to the bottom of things that need to be solved. And so these are three different skills, problem solving skills, and your start here would be what you think is most important when solving problems.
Option one is the analysis of the problem, so how you actually look at and analyze what problem needs to be solved. Option two is your communication with those in and around the problem. And option three is just your own emotional IQ as a coach and how each problem affects you and your staff personally from an emotional standpoint. So start, subset, analysis, communication, or emotional IQ.
Robyn Fralick 21:05
Well, obviously all are really important and I think probably every scenario looks a little different, but I love that you said this because I read this quote or I can’t remember as a podcast, but it essentially said, if you love problem solving, you should get into coaching because that is what we’re doing all the time, right? Is this constant problem solving.
So step one for me would be analysis. So that’s what I’m going to start. I want to have a really an understanding. I think something I work hard at is to not overreact, really get a feel for what’s going on before making decisions. The second one would be communication because I think once you figure out what’s going on, it’s important to communicate appropriately to all parties that we’re on the same page. And then the third one, I think the emotional IQ and EQ part is really important, but I know one of the things you said was about yourself in it. And I think that is always guiding the communication piece. So that would be the sit. So start analysis, sub communication, sit, personal, emotional, EQ.
Dan 22:09
Thank you and appreciate that. And we obviously put in this question together, no, these are all a part of every problem solving situation, but love to ask you about communication actually. And you’ve had such a successful career thus far, going from different levels and being able to communicate hard conversations and maybe anything you’ve learned about having the difficult conversations and how that helps you get to the bottom of any problem that needs solving.
Robyn Fralick 22:38
Well, communication is my number one job, and one of my guiding quotes, and I think about a lot, because no matter how many hard conversations you’ve had, they’re always hard. And I think sometimes that’s underestimated, even, you know, as a leader, there is always an emotional component that make those challenging. But one of my favorite quotes is clear is kind. And I think being really clear is kind with players, with staff, with expectations. We’re all better when we have a real understanding of what we’re supposed to do. And I think a feedback is being really helpful. You know, sometimes the word criticism, to me, it’s feedback. We’re all better with feedback. And that’s how we get better.
Pat 23:23
How much do you think or weigh or consider when you think about communication, say, outside the court, communication in a practice setting, and then communication in a game? How does the environment maybe affect how you communicate or will communicate?
Robyn Fralick 23:37
Yeah, well, communication looks different based on environment, for sure, right? There’s these different worlds that we’re connecting in. I think off the court, that communication is going to be much more organic, right? At practice, I think our communication has to be consistent as a staff. There has to really be an understanding of what we’re saying is repeatable and makes sense.
But also practice you have time. There’s time to sort of pause and stop and you can get into some nitty gritty. You got to make time for that. And then in the games, my philosophy behind that is it is too late. So anything we’re communicating has to be helpful and it has to be forward and it’s their time. And the last thing that I want to do, and we talk about this a lot as a staff, is we do not want to slow them down. It is not our time. It is their time. And so anything we’re saying needs to be helpful.
Dan 24:32
Love to zoom out for a second on all of these and ask you a little bit about your learnings from when you were at Ashland, vision two, I mean, national championship, back to back final fours and the staggering stat of you are 104 and three in those years at Ashland, winning a lot of games. And then your first couple of years at Bowling Green, you know, you were getting the program kick-started in the other direction and just different problems, obviously, at the two places and those years of going from winning 104 games, only three losses to then where you were those first couple, anything that you learned as a coach there about how to solve problems.
Robyn Fralick 25:09
Yeah, I’ve learned a lot. What an interesting way to start your coaching career, right? With this magnificent dominant team, that was an interesting start, and then to transition into a rebuild. But some things I learned, one, I think that we have stayed really consistent with the way we coach and the standards we have in our core values. Those have looked the same, whether we’ve been winning all our games or struggling to win. Those haven’t changed.
The other piece that I really learned is the margin is so small between winning and losing. And in my first three years at Ashland, the margin wasn’t small. I could make a lot of mistakes, and we were good enough to overcome that. If I could look back on a game plan and want to do something different, we still would win. Even if there’s things that needed to be sharpened or to be better. And then when I transitioned to Bowling Green, I just learned how small the margin was and how it’s our job to really be prepared for finding ways to win those small margins of games.
Dan 26:17
following up too on what you mentioned about not panicking with problems and I would imagine there probably was some panic early on, blowing green as you’re going from where you were to where it was and what you learned there because you mentioned that earlier and I thought that was a great quote.
Robyn Fralick 26:31
I think I learned the patience required and it really does take time. One of my favorite quotes is a CS Lewis quote and it says day-to-day nothing seems to change and then pretty soon everything’s different.
And when you’re taking over a team that’s been at the bottom of the league, day-to-day nothing seems to change, but it was. And actually my first year, interestingly, I had this Microsoft Word document where I wrote all of our victories. We didn’t win that many games, but there were so many little things happening that were victories and that might’ve been from the way we practiced or the way people were caring about each other. There were all these little things and that was helpful for me because I knew things were trending in the right direction and it wasn’t showing up on game day, but it was showing up. And there’s always that tipping point when you stay consistent with what you believe and how you coach and how you compete eventually there’s day-to-day nothing seems to change, but pretty soon everything’s different. So I learned a lot about patience and I learned a lot about believing in what you’re doing is the right thing and you just gotta stay with it.
Pat 27:41
You mentioned you wrote down celebrating maybe how you practice and just to elaborate on that, I guess, what are the things that you were celebrating with that team or continue to celebrate or hold important with how you practice.
Robyn Fralick 27:53
Well, it might’ve been we had a great practice. It might’ve been a kid who has never, ever thought of shooting with a teammate, is bringing a teammate in now and they’re shooting together. Execution. We had a game plan and we executed it and we might’ve still lost, but there were always these things happening that were getting better. And if you were paying attention, they were victories.
That was helpful for me to stay motivated. Those were helpful things to share with the team as well. Cause our second year at Bowling Green, I think we won one more game than our first year, but we had seven overtime losses. We were so much better. And then that third year we won the league. So they were helpful for us as a staff to stay on track, but they were helpful for the team because we knew we were getting better and those were things that we were able to share that were victories.
All right, coach.
Pat 29:27
Moving along, our next start sub sit for you, we call this the teach. And this has to do with your transition defense. And we’re going to specifically look at who is running back. So looking at your transition defense with the players that are not going to the glass. So start subset, the toughest to teach with those players is who runs back in your transition defense, how they run back, and where they run back to.
Robyn Fralick 29:56
one start the hardest part where I think that’s really tricky because the game is a little unpredictable and every team’s transition looks different. Sub how so how they run back I think same thing I wish it could be more straightforward answer but it’s a little nebulous and then the third would be who I think that’s the most direct part that you can figure out with transition D and we need help with our transition D so.
Pat 30:26
Coach, I love to dive into it. I guess first the simple one is we’ll start with your set and who do you want to run back or, you know, how many you want to send the class, who do you want to get back. And then I want to move your start and just like where you want your get back players to go to, or how are you building your transition defense with them.
Robyn Fralick 30:46
So who, I think that is a little bit dependent, I think you have to pay attention year to year a little bit about how good of rebounders you have. I think the less good you are at naturally rebounding, the more you can send back. In my brain, I always try to think of the game through an aggressive perspective. So if we have good rebounders, I’m always going to be engaged to send more to the glass.
Who, typically, we send one back, we send three rebounders, and we have a ball stopper. So that person’s main job is to slow the ball down. We have adjusted that year to year though, a little bit depending on personnel. Where? So that part is hard. We like to send them back, protect rim, but honestly, a lot of times that’s not the primary thing you need to protect. We call them to be in the hole. And so I think that’s something we’re always trying to get a little bit better grasp on because they often end up fanning out early. We don’t want to duck at the rim and then you’re mismatched, but they typically end up fanning out a little bit early if you get the ball slowed down. So I think that part’s harder. We’ve also adjusted if certain teams are really good at transition of marking. We’ve done that in the past where we’ve marked certain players, like you take them away.
Pat 32:04
With the one you get back, the one ball stopper, I guess is a positional based or spot based off of like who is going to go to the hole, who is going to stop the ball.
Robyn Fralick 32:13
It’s personnel-based. You sort of earn those roles. Better rebounders are the ones who rebound. We have somebody who’s not really a rebounder. They’re typically our get-back person. And our ball stoppers have to be good on ball defenders. So what I love to share with our team is the better you are at more of these, the more of these you’re going to get to do. And the more of them you get to do, the more versatile you are to play. So if you can be a ball stopper and a get-backer and a rebounder, well, then we’re going to tell you what you are for that game or what you are in this group. But often, a lot of kids, they know they’re a get-backer. That’s something that they do consistently. And they know they’re a ball stopper. Now, if we’re playing two ball stoppers at the same time, it’s our job as a staff to make sure we communicate they know who the ball stopper is in that particular group. If anyone has any good ideas, we’ve got to be better at it next year. So you’ve got to get a good podcast on transition D.
Dan 33:08
Coach, I was actually going to follow up about you joking, being better next year, but with you playing so fast offensively, daily in practice, does that help your transition defense that your offense is consistently pushing the pace and with being such a good transition offensive team, like challenging your defense daily? And my question is, do you work out at the same time? Is it specific drills that are more defensive or offensive or is it just kind of always flowing together for you?
Robyn Fralick 33:37
It’s both, you know, something we do every day, the drill we call Nance. So we’re always working on our missed shot break, our made shot break. Those look different. And I think you have to work on them knowing they’re different.
The pace of them are different. So we’ll do that up and down for a while. Then we’ll switch while we’re working on our missed shot transition D and our made shot transition D. And we do that against our scout team a lot, but that’s something we do every day. And it’s great because when we’re in season and it’s a scout, we can always adjust to what the other team’s running, guarding that, how they’re going to guard us. It’s consistently working on both breaks.
Pat 34:16
You mentioned when you’re talking about the player who gets back in the hole but that offenses will start to fan out and I mean there is more prevalence of shooting transition three-pointers. If we kind of take now the hole and not only the people who are your get-back people but your rebounders, how are you working with taking away quick transition threes or what is kind of your tenets or principles as all five of the group are trying to transition back?
Robyn Fralick 34:39
Well, a few things are really important. One, effort sprints. As we said, elite teams are great when the ball goes up. You do something. So if your job is to stop the ball, you’ve got to slow the ball down. One of the most important things of taking away early baskets is to slow the ball down. Be disruptive. Don’t let the ball get thrown ahead to its next spot with pace.
Secondly, you have to communicate. We always say being matched up is more important than your matchup. When we’re in transition, when we’re in conversion, being matched up is more important than your matchup and communicate. And the reality is that is a skill we need to work on. We need to get better at. And that is something that is, I think, really, really important in being good in conversion and that it’s a hard skill to get good at because you’ve got to be able to make quick decisions and communicate.
And another thing we say is the person in the hole, they’re the eyes of the defense. It’s just like a good post offender, right? They’re often the eyes of the defense. They can see what others cannot see. So that person has to be really, really sharp at communicating to people who can’t see what they can see.
Dan 35:48
Coach, you’re off the start, sub, or sit hot seat. Thanks for playing that game with us. That was a lot of fun. We got one last question for you before we close the show, but before we do, really appreciate you once again coming on and sharing your thoughts and congratulations on all the success.
Robyn Fralick 36:02
Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. It’s been a lot of fun.
Dan 36:06
Our last question that we ask all the guests is, what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach?
Robyn Fralick 36:13
You know, I think this is something I’ve learned over time. The best investment you can make is in yourself.
I think healthy leaders, healthy teams. So that investment in sleeping, that investment in exercising, finding ways to have great quality time with your family, I think that’s the best investment. I really do believe healthy leaders, healthy teams.
Dan 36:40
All right, Pat, let’s dive into this wrap up was great having Coach Fralick on as I kind of had mentioned her and I got a chance to connect last summer at a coaching clinic and where she spoke at. And she was phenomenal talking about building her culture and unique ways to do it.
And she just took over the Michigan State job and then went on to have a phenomenal first year. So we wanted to start with the quote credit to you, you had found in our research, really good article about her this year. And one of the quotes that she mentioned in there was what we started with, which was she believes they play with a unique pace and unique way they share the ball. And so we just felt like that would be a good place to dive in and just ask, well, let’s hear about the unique sharing of the ball, the unique pace. And there was a lot of good nuggets in there. And so I’ll kick it back to you on first thoughts there.
Pat 37:29
I know before we started this session, we talked about her emphasis on the conversion and building good conversion habits. And if you want to play with pace and even then when we got into with the transition defense, those moments in a conversation we’ve had before, but it’s obviously true.
Building the habits and knowing what’s next for those players and those conversions are so critical to, in this case, wanting to play fast. And she got into, when we kind of followed up with their approach to spacing, what spacings they want to get to. And that’s like the whole trigger for their pace.
Dan 38:04
Yeah, I really like you just said it too. So I won’t double down too much on it. But the automatic habits, you mentioned how automatic habits allow you to play faster and knowing where people are sprinting to knowing the spacings that they want, wherever that rebound made or miss shot, wherever that takes place, they just have a sense of how they’re going to then play quickly. And there’s not a lot of thinking involved.
And then the thinking comes after they’ve entered into the offense, it can begin to make reads and flow. And so there shouldn’t be not an overly amount of thinking in that conversion period of like, let’s rebound it and let’s go. Let’s get into our stuff. Yeah, they know what’s next. Exactly. I really like that. The other thing I wanted to ask her about, once again, post play. And we had Coach Scott Moore from Grace College on not too long ago. And they were one of the most efficient post playing offenses in NAIA last year. And for Coach Fralick, Michigan State women’s basketball was also one of the most efficient and highest usage teams in the post last year. And she mentioned obviously having a good player. But then when you watch their film, the way that they’re playing offense and the unpredictability of movements and cuts and all that, when they do enter it, there’s usually, I remember Coach Moore talking about they’re entering it where they’re in a position where they’re not having to make a ton of dribble down moves and things like that, where the efficiency goes down, where there’s a lot of screens and seals or getting the ball deep in the paint where they can just kind of catch and finish. And so like picking her brain on that, because once again, kind of unique as well. Coach Moore was slower pace, a lot of post play. Coach Freilich is higher pace, a lot of post play. And so the end result is there’s a lot of ways to win basketball games. Yeah. That’s why we have a podcast. Yeah.
Pat 39:51
My last point that I enjoyed within this first conversation, I mean, we’ve talked about pace, but we wanted to also about, she said she was unique and how they share the ball. And I think it really kind of boiled down to the shot selection and said they always wanted to hunt great shots, look for great shots.
And she brought up a really interesting point. And we’ve had conversation before, but of course, like there’s the systematic shots and we got into a good discussion there as well that these are the shots we want out of our offense, but also over time establishing within the team, who are the players that have made a little bit more freedom to take difficult shots, who are your players that are just going to be shooting more. So I think building in that institutional knowledge also helps, as she said, sharing the ball, knowing what shots collectively they’re searching for, who can take what shots kind of builds into how they share the ball in this selfless or unselfish mentality.
Dan 40:46
Yeah, in start sub sit. I love how she was joking, needing help in transition for next season. And so it was fun picking her brain on that one.
I’d actually like to just quickly start there. We were talking to you specifically with another coach about transition defense in the off-season and trying to study it and who does it the best. And that’s kind of where this came from of the where, the how, and the who of getting back and trying to get things set. So I’ll kick it back to you there.
Pat 41:11
I think it’s always interesting, especially with how the game is teams want to play fast. Of course, like we talked about, but everyone knows that earlier in the shot clock, you’re going to generate a higher PPP. And so within, let’s say these first seven to 10 seconds, it’s not necessarily just getting layups or hunting threes. So, you know, that’s why I wanted to start with like, well, how are you thinking about the players that get back and where are you running them to?
How are you picking up the ball? We’ve had coaches reach out just what a lot of coaches are trying to think about. And what coach Freilich said even after the pod, like, that’s probably one of the hardest things to really teach. Again, because just now the shot spectrum is not just hunt layups, pull out, run offense, it’s hunt layups or early threes. So there’s a lot of court you have to defend in this chaotic conversion space. She mentioned communication being like the ultimate piece to hear. And her stressing being matched up is more important than finding your matchup.
Dan 42:04
I like that. I think that teams have just gotten really good playing with pace and space in general. You look across a lot of levels and offenses I think have just gotten really good at understanding there’s multiple people that can take the ball off the rim and push in transition and get into some kind of really good action quickly a handoff of drag screen you know any of the delay stuff like teams are just you say over the last five six years I don’t know I’ve gotten really good at it coaches not to teach it players like to play to it and so that’s put a lot of stress on transition defense because there’s a reason that teams run offensively is because it is a higher PPP so on the other side of it trying to guard that stuff is pretty hard to do and so like she mentioned I think trying to figure out the best ways to do that I mean she was honest about just trying to even herself up that in their own program and they weren’t bad at it by any stretch I mean they were good but like I think everybody’s thinking about how do we do that you
Pat 43:01
Yeah, I think a big piece is whether you’re sending five, four, three, it’s how quickly can you get matched up regardless of if it’s your matchup or not? And then the next one is just how then do you want to solve bad match-ups? They’re very nuanced obviously, but those are like two, the big components. How quickly can we get matched up? And then how do we solve any mismatches out of this transition matchup?
Dan 43:23
Or like in international basketball you just do a take foul. Just foul. Yeah, we’re not doing transition defense
Pat 43:31
Never
Dan 43:33
I’m pretty good men’s leagues now with that take foul. Honestly, there’s no foul limit. I just yeah, I’m not playing transition D I’m grabbing you we’re taking them all out on the side Yeah Hey, the other star subs it was really a good one tons of nuggets in here Also getting to know her here in her speak and then more research on her as well what people have said and what we’ve heard is that she’s just an elite problem solver and I think Especially this conversation you heard that shine through. I’ll just quickly take my first crack at it And I’m gonna steal your quote, but I love the clear is kind quote We wanted to just get into she’s been known as a great problem solver So we found these three different skills that we thought would be interesting And I loved her start and her clear is kind with the communication in the sub and just basically her at one point saying First thing is not panicking or to not overreact right away That she’s a head coach and she said it you just constantly solving problems every day different ones various ones who was it makes me think of Dustin Kerns I believe was on the podcast talking about the waves as a coach that are constantly coming at you. I enjoyed when she
Pat 44:44
We shared her thoughts on the kind of three environments that we find ourselves in as coaches outside the gym, the practice, in the practice and then in a game and what changes with the communication and how you deliver the message.
I think that’s something you and I have discussed and I’ve started to think about more how the environment influences how you communicate, but how it also, it connects, you know, they’re not just isolated environments, they all relate and how coaches can think about message tone and all that goes into communication, of course, just the relationship and what each environment, the affordances that allows you, I mean, she mentioned, of course, in practice and outside you have more time and then in a game, she said, you know, at this point, it’s probably too late, but you have to make sure you’re communicating stuff that actually helps them.
Dan 45:30
Yeah. And the game I liked, she talked about basically just staying out of the way and we shouldn’t be holding them back at all. Reminding me of Jim and Jay Larranaga we had last year. Jim was talking about once we get to the game, his job is to give them confidence basically. Pat, as we start to round this out, any misses or things you wish we could have had more time on? Misses not from her end, but things that we could have went deeper on? Going back.
Pat 45:55
Back to the pace conversation, we talked about the conversions and she just mentioned what we talked about, knowing what’s next and the spacings and where to run to. What I’d like to have followed up there, a wish I had, it’s kind of a miss just learning more about, I guess, how they’re building their transition offense, the spaces and if it’s interchangeable, you know, similar to a conversation that I really enjoyed with coach Modi Mayore and just how they thought about playing faster and getting to space.
Dan 46:21
Absolutely. And I’ll just follow up with mine as well. I liked a lot what she said at the end with her best investment question, talking about a healthy leader leads to a healthy team. And we don’t usually follow up. I guess we could have reversed the music and brought her back, but I would have loved to talk just a little bit more on her personal thoughts on that. I thought it was a really good statement and things, you know, we’ve sentiments we’ve heard from other coaches about the health of the leader being most important for that.
So I could have spent more time on that. And then also she said that they use analytics. I’m talking about in the first bucket now, use analytics for mostly self scout and then also team scout and maybe just diving into like what they really look at analytically. Cause I think I asked her if they had any thoughts on when we’re talking about pace, how fast they want to enter it or get into their half court stuff. She said, not really, but that they do use analytics for self scout. So I guess maybe ask a little bit more about the analytics part of it. That would have been something I might’ve pulled at that thread. Well, Pat, if there’s nothing else, let’s start out wrapping this thing up. Sounds good. Thank you, coach Freilich. Once again, for coming on, continued success for her in the Michigan state women’s program. Thanks everybody for listening. We’ll see you next time.
Pat 47:38
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please make sure to visit SlappinGlass.com for more information on the free newsletter, Slapping Glass Plus, and much more. Have a great week coaching, and we’ll see you next time on Slapping Glass.