Ross Hodge joins Slappin’ Glass to discuss defensive adaptability, teaching defensive decision making, and adjusting a no middle defense against modern basketball offenses. The trio explores how to prepare players for scramble situations, develop defensive feel, and defend the flat ball screens that challenge paint protection.
During Start, Sub, or Sit?!, the trio dives into offensive player development, including rim finishing, shot selection, passing, and drawing fouls. Hodge explains how better decisions create better finishes, why footwork and spacing matter for bigs, and how to help secondary playmakers avoid situations that demand difficult passes.
The trio also discusses zone offense, using step up ball screens and weak side screening to create advantages, and building practice plans that expose your offense to different defensive coverages. Hodge closes with his thoughts on investing in players, staff, and the people around your program.
Transcript
Dan Krikorian 02:28
Coach, appreciate you taking some time this morning during the season to talk to us. Excited to jump into a bunch of things with you today.
Ross Hodge 02:35
Yeah, super excited to be here. Appreciate you guys extending the offer, and appreciate all you guys do for growing the game of college basketball and giving so many people a platform to spread so many good ideas.
Dan Krikorian 02:49
Thank you, Coach. We wanted to start with the idea of defensive adaptability in the age of modern offense.
So offenses have gotten faster, more pace, more spread, and you as someone well known for your defensive mindedness and how you play on the defensive side, how you’ve had to adapt or change or what you’re thinking about as offenses have changed in this modern era, quote unquote.
Ross Hodge 03:16
One of the biggest challenges, to your point, is the offenses have evolved. The skill level of all five positions has evolved. I listen to you guys a lot, listen to a lot of the offensive guys and the defensive guys, but we are kinda in this time period of offensive basketball being more conceptual. You know, you guys have talked about that a lot, like conceptual as opposed to sets and the flow and the pace and the read and react from an offensive standpoint. And so I think your defensive adaptability has to mirror that, and we talk about it a lot.
Like, most defenses can be good when things are simply black and white from a scouting report standpoint, from a rules and your principles. If you’re able to play defensively in black and white only, you’re probably gonna be able to have a lot of success because your players are gonna be put in easier predicaments to figure out. The best defenses, in my opinion, are the ones that have the best ability to play in the gray area. If a ball screen’s on the outer third, we wanna keep this down. If it’s in the middle third, we’re gonna just let it go to the middle, whatever you call it, blue, ice, up, down, red. And then when the game is happening, okay, well, what happens when the ball screen is set legitimately on the lane line extended, and it’s not really in the outer third, it’s not in the middle third? Can you as a defense figure that gray area out without being told specifically from your coach and staff what you’re supposed to do in this area? And as you see offenses evolve into that time where it’s not so much a set that your assistant coach can stand up on the bench and hear the point guard call it on their team, “Hey, they’re running 54 down,” and direct it. As the offenses have become just more read, react, conceptional, your defenses have to mirror that, and you have to be comfortable playing, I call it, in the gray area. And a lot of times you can make up for that, as some of other people have talked about on your show, is just with your effort, your activity on the ball, and your activity off the ball that can help you in that.
Dan Krikorian 05:49
Coach, to dive in on the gray areas, how have you and your staff thought about repping, drilling, teaching those areas of the game that offenses are trying to put you in more often?
Ross Hodge 06:02
You know, we spend a lot of time talking about it, especially this time of the year, because in particular you have so many new players now, all of us do. And so you’re still trying to… You wanna build habits that you can lean back on, and a lot of those habits are built through your drill work, your shell work, your defensive breakdowns, and then can you take those habits and get it into when you’re playing? And just the balance of how much do you play, how much do you drill? If your players don’t really know what they’re supposed to be doing, then it’s never gonna show up when you’re just playing, but you can’t spend all your time just doing drill work, and you can’t spend your time just doing playing.
So you try to put your defense in as many disadvantaged situations as you can. Scramble situations, I think, are always good to build some of what where happens in a gray area, so when there is a little confusion. You know, good offenses are all about leverage points and trying to find a way to get two defenders on the ball, whether it’s through the drive, if you have a post-up player that’s an elite post-up player, and then how can you play out of that? And so defensively, getting good in scrambles, getting good in rotations, getting all five of your players comfortable defending different positions on the floor, in my opinion, is where you have to get good. You know, again, back in the day, if you were defending a block or mover offense, well, you knew your two forwards were gonna be guarding large amounts of pin downs or flares, probably have to defend a post-up if the ball got entered on the pin down side, and that was about where it was gonna end for them. Well, now your forward, if he gets cross-matched in transition, he could be having to defend the person setting the ball screen. He could be having to defend the person receiving a ball screen. You know, he could be having to defend a space or five-man on the perimeter. So just the ability to defend the entire court for all five players is something you really gotta work on, and the best way to work on it is, again, to put them in those positions and have them play out of those positions.
Patrick Carney 08:25
Coach, sticking on these scramble situations, these advantage/disadvantage situations, through the same lens as like as there’s more skill in the game, there’s more spacing, what has changed in how you try to work your team through these scramble situations, these gray areas? And I’m thinking more in terms of is it a lot more, I guess, like the peel switching.
Are we trying, “Hey, it’s just keep him out of the paint, so first guy switch,” or is it we always wanna kinda help at the rim, whether it’s middle or baseline? How are you talking with your staff and your players in terms of solving scramble situations to get back to neutral as quickly as possible?
Ross Hodge 09:01
That’s a great question, and to me, that’s where you really need experience with your team playing, and no different than an offensive coach would view an offensive team and try to figure out, “Hey, what do we do well as an offensive team? What do our players do well as an offensive player?” I think you gotta view it through the same lens defensively, and what are the strengths of your team gonna be defensively? Do you have versatility at the five where you could feel comfortable switching more? Do you wanna try to funnel it more to a bigger five-man where you’re constantly trying to find ways that he can be at the rim? To your point, and we’ve been struggling with this a little bit, ’cause again, it’s new, but what kinda is the point of no return if there’s a middle ball screen and the ball handler gets downhill? When do you peel switch off of it? How long do you fight to get back in front of the ball? And to me, that’s the gray area, ’cause there’s not like a… Even if you’re gonna say, “Hey, if it gets below the foul line, then it’s an automatic,” but man, in that game, and it’s happening fast, like to process that, there does need to be feel involved to be a good defensive player and a good defensive team.
Maybe I’m the… And people have different terminology for their rim guy. You know, we just call him the rim. I know some NBA, like they call him the mig. Coach Adams and them at Ole Miss, they called him the goalie. People call that person a different player. But if by the rule of the definition I’m supposed to be, me personally, Coach Hodge, 5’10” 1/2, by the rule, if I’m supposed to be the rim guy, but Amadou Cene is one player above me and he’s seven foot one, can we learn to navigate that without being… Yes, you’re kinda being told a little bit of that in film. Like, as the year goes on, that should happen organically because the players have played enough to know. And no different than when you watch an offensive play and they’re in a great rhythm and they’re making simple reads and the ball’s moving and you’re watching that. To me, it’s the same way defensively. There can be a rhythm and an organic chemistry that develops where maybe this time they did switch a zoom. Maybe the next time they didn’t. Maybe they did have to switch a ball screen. Maybe the next time they didn’t. Maybe the, a guy got… You know, we’re a no middle defense, but maybe somebody got beat over the top and the rim guy took him and he peeled off. You know, it can just almost be like a flow state defensively in a weird way that they’re just largely all predicated also on keeping the ball out of the paint. It takes a little while, and we’ve had good defenses through the years. We’ve had some great defenses And even if you look at our numbers, like, you know, one year we were an elite two-point defense, and then we followed that up a year later, speaking back to some of our North Texas years, we were an elite defensive team that gave up no threes. We gave up three and a half made threes a game one year. The year before, we gave up more catch-and-shoot threes, but you got nothing at the rim.
Ross Hodge 12:27
So identifying what you do well as a defense, knowing you’re gonna have your core principles and foundations. The big picture objective, as we all know, is to keep the ball out of the paint and try to make your opponent take as many tough twos as you can.
But how you go about it can look a little different depending on your personnel and who you’re even playing. And the best defenses have the ability to morph into what they need to be that night.
Speaker 5 12:57
You talked about getting to a point where if there’s a small at the rim and kind of switching out with the big, is that something you’ll encourage from the start with your guys? Or like you said, just build the habits of like, hey, let’s make sure we understand this guy’s the rim and the habits.
And then as they evolve and get comfortable with the offense, then giving them that freedom? Or is that something you’ll encourage right away?
Ross Hodge 13:19
Combination of both, but definitely trying to build the initial first habit. But through that, you’ll mention like, hey, if you can get them there, get them there. But their comfort level in doing something like that takes a while because you’re not going to absolute them. In particular, to start, because we do overhelp, we’re a heavy help team at the rim, no middle. I always say I’d rather have three people run into the rim than no people run into the rim in the beginning. With that same concept, just getting, hey, these guys got to learn, okay, where am I supposed to be first? And then their spatial awareness, no different than you teach offense, 15 to 18 foot spacing. It’s very similar defensively. I mean, you’ll be shocked. I’m always kind of shocked in the beginning when we’re teaching this stuff or you’re watching your defense and you may have two defenders and they’re literally standing. They could not be standing close to each other. Maybe if they were wearing the same jersey, they could only get closer. And you’re just kind of like, man, did you not see him right next to you? Again, I think as their overall awareness and their overall understanding gets better, then it makes it easier for them to do those little subtle things that really only take a second to do.
But because things are happening so fast right now and they’re processing it, everything’s in warp speed. I know you guys watch a lot of film. It’s always amazing at the beginning of seasons, just the frenetic energy on both ends of the floor. And then you watch games in late January and February, not that the pace has subsided, but just that frantic energy that’s felt that in a lot of ways causes breakdowns defensively. It sounds crazy to say you’re almost trying too hard, but as the game slows down for them, as they have a better collective understanding, it makes it easier for them to make the little subtle adjustments that we talked about. I use it like a foreign language. Like right now, we had Amir Jenkins played for us last year, but he was out with a shoulder surgery. Brendan Lorian wasn’t around this summer. So you have a brand new team. In a lot of ways, you’re speaking a foreign language to your team. Well, before Patrick, you can help Dan learn his new language. You have to learn the new language first and then you can help him. So we’re all learning together. And then as it moves on, inevitably you’ll get those defenders that can help everybody figure stuff out like a free safety, like a middle linebacker that can communicate out there for everybody.
Speaker 5 16:12
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Ross Hodge 17:38
We had, his name was J.J. Murray, and he actually walked on for us at North Texas. He was a JUCO All-American at Eastfield Community College there in the Metroplex, and he ended up walking on for us in 2019, redshirted that year, and was kind of the scout team point guard, and he just could guard the ball at an elite level and really made life at that time.
Ryan Woolridge was our point guard who was one of the fastest guards in the country end to end. Ended up transferring to Gonzaga. And then the next year we brought in Ja’Von Hamlet, who was player of the year, and JJ guarded him every year. So JJ was with us for four years, worked his way in from a walk-on red shirt to a starter, and played minutes on our NCAA tournament team that beat Purdue, and then he was a full-time… This was the next year. But he was with us for four years. Ruben Jones was gonna be in his third year. Mardrez McBride was in his second year. Thomas Bell was gonna be in his third year. And then Abu Usman, our center. We had five guys that had been in the system with a lot of experience. JJ Murray was the best on-ball defender that no one’s ever heard of. I mean, he was probably the best on-ball defender in the country. And then Thomas Bell was a 6’6″ Swiss Army knife freak defensively that could guard anybody one through five. So your point of attack defense on the ball, and then the ability of Thomas Bell on the back line of that to make up for a lot of people’s mistakes, and Ruben Jones and Mardrez McBride were plus defenders on the perimeter. Even though we were loading, we just didn’t get beat off the dribble very much at all, and we had extreme versatility, athletic ability, and understanding. And so that team could really pitch some shutouts, man, defensively.
We ended up going 16 and 2 in league that year, and we didn’t lose a conference game for two months. You couldn’t get them off. We were very good at rotating when we had to, but we didn’t have to very often. And as you guys know, positionally, if you can show that early visual help, ’cause offensive players wanna play in space, you know, good defenses eliminate space, and so you had an elite on-ball defender with four people behind him positioned very well. I mean, they’re just seeing there’s not anywhere to go, you know? That was what made that team so unique.
Dan Krikorian 20:19
With the no middle mentality in defense over the years, when an offense obviously knows that coming into play and they’re bent on attacking you in the middle third, whether elbow catches, middle pick and rolls, whatever it is, how do you and your defense think about morphing, you said earlier, when a team is not gonna really put the ball on the side for you, but keep it in the middle?
Ross Hodge 20:42
I listened to you guys when TJ was on talking about theirs, and I thought he was spot on with the changes from when we first all kinda started doing this, and you’re bullying drives down the lane line and you’re taking charges at the rim. And hearing him talk through that, I was like, man, yeah, like, you know, could’ve been flies on our walls as well.
But even when we were in Conference USA or now, like when we would play a team like that had heavy Princeton rules, you know, where everybody’s lifted above the foul line and you really are to invite a baseline drive against that type of offense probably is putting you unnecessary harm. And I think this is where having done it for as long as we’ve done it now and learning how to not cut off your nose just to spite your face. No, this is what we’re gonna do, and we’re just gonna impose our will on this situation no matter what, and dang it, we’re not doing it hard enough. ‘Cause your primary job is to put your players in position to be successful. So if we were playing a team like that or if we were playing a heavy five out team, we would say, hey, like even on the sides, even if it got foul line below, like, “Hey, let’s make sure we’re gonna take away the quick rip.” You gotta take that away initially, and then maybe we can settle back in once we’re able to load a little bit more. But don’t be hopping up there on a side knowing that everybody’s foul line and above or it’s a true five out. So we would just go into those games. I think anybody that does this now would tell you we’ve all probably morphed into being a little more square in the middle of the floor because of that, because of the no charges, and then also playing so many offenses where your five man is naturally not gonna be down there to muck up the offense. And so you gotta be a little more square. We would just say that, “Hey, like square up.” In some cases, we’re gonna take away the baseline drive on these type of offenses, and we are gonna be a little more to the middle with our ball screen coverages even, and not be so committed to it that you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage by trying to execute something that’s gonna hurt you. Now, if it’s just, if somebody came into the game, you know, they had a good play, like one good play that they had dialed up for it, to me, those are more like you just tip the hat and you’re like, “Hey, yeah, that was a good one,” but big picture-wise, that ain’t gonna beat you. You know? But if it’s more big picture, this is what this team’s trying to do, then you’re gonna change and you’re gonna morph. And that’s where, as we’ve done it more and as we’ve learned about it more and you’ve seen more, you have better answers to counter it as well.
Patrick Carney 23:37
Teams, they want to attack through the middle third, and again, talking about just how offenses have continued to evolve, and I think like offense are really getting good with their screening angles. If a team’s committed to keeping the ball in the middle third, and I think the action kinda we see a lot that’s coming up is where maybe it’s like a four-man cutting, setting a super flat almost to the back of the defender ball screen, what are you talking with your staff in terms of how to maybe solve that situation or just account for that type of screen that you’re seeing more and more often?
Ross Hodge 24:07
Well, if you were in our practice yesterday, you wouldn’t think we’re doing a very good job of it at all. Getting pushed in the middle of the floor. Honestly, like talking about it at nauseam.
We basically had a entire film session dedicated to having to guard the ball in the middle thirds, and making sure we’re square, and making sure you’re not getting … There ain’t a lot of defenses for a blow by in the middle of the floor.
Dan Krikorian 24:33
Right.
Ross Hodge 24:33
There’s not a lot of … You know, but I think one thing you always gotta look at, if teams are going to do that, if they’re gonna kinda start, like you said, with that butt screen action in the middle of the floor, or just that flight, the flat, you know, four man and then ducking in the five underneath them, is very popular. I think the first thing you gotta look at is your pickup point, which is very hard, because we wanna be in aggressive defense. We wanna be the aggressors.
We wanna dictate where we want the ball to go in a lot of ways. But to me, Patrick, that’s … Also gets back to what we were talking about a little bit before. You can’t wanna be so aggressive that you’re up there getting clipped 40 feet from the basket with really good guards, you know, which we know, I mean, like, just elite level guards, and now they’re in the paint. So a lot of times when we’ve tried to identify that, and we’ve tried to back the ball handler defense up and almost turn it into, like, a little two-two zone. If someone’s setting butt screens to start over and over and over again, literally back ’em up. The guy guarding the ball handler, um, you know, NBA line or under on the left, or yeah, underneath him here, and then the person guarding the butt screener almost turning it into a ball screen coverage, and he’s level on the other side of it, and you’re trying to corral it and not just get drug so deep, because if you go over the top of it, now that forward, he’s gonna get drug. Now you’re opening up the pocket for the short roll or the throwback.
If somebody has better ideas, I’d love to hear it. Me personally, I haven’t found much better than to try to back up your pickup point deeply in that specific alignment. It’s so simple. It’s one of those things, it’s so crazy simple, it is easy to get overlooked in meetings from a preparation standpoint, and you’re like, “Oh, it’s just a butt screen. We’ll just force it left. We’ll just weak it, and it shouldn’t give us that many problems.” Next thing you know, you’re out there in a game and you’re like, “Why can we not guard a butt screen?”
Dan Krikorian 26:45
Coach, this has been awesome so far. Thanks for all your thoughts there.
We do wanna transition now to a segment on the show we call Start, Sub or Sit. For those potentially listening for the first time, we’re gonna give you three options around a topic, ask you to start one, sub one, and sit one on the bench, and then we’ll have fun diving into your answer from there. So Coach, if you’re set, we’ll get into this first one.
Ross Hodge 27:06
All right. Fire away.
Dan Krikorian 27:08
Okay. We’re gonna go to the offensive side of the ball, if that’s okay with you.
Ross Hodge 27:11
I like it.
Dan Krikorian 27:11
Okay. This first one we’re calling offensive puzzles to solve, and these three things would be lacking potentially in your offense, and which one of them would be the most important to solve to get your offense to be more efficient and try to make up the margins, per se? So first option is if you just lack great passers, or you don’t have a lot of multiple good passers or decision makers. The second option would be lacking maybe high quality, like, rim finishers, like really being able to finish at the rim. Or the third one is lacking players that really know how to get to the free throw line naturally and win that free throw shooting margin. So puzzles to solve, what would be most important to you if you’re lacking in one of these areas?
Passing, rim finishing, or getting to the line?
Ross Hodge 28:02
Man, those are good ones. Not easy puzzles to solve.
I would probably start with trying to figure out finishing at the rim, because it would probably be the easiest to identify the problem. Like, is our spacing poor? Are we not getting flat enough for the forwards to finish? Are they not getting the dunker spot? Are we simply taking twos at the rim that we shouldn’t be taking to begin with? And Coach Eustachy we talked about before we got going, you know, I worked for him. He’d said, like, some of the worst shots are taken off offensive rebounds. Your forwards kinda think it’s a license to shoot it if they get it. So that’s where I would probably start, because in my opinion, it’s probably the simplest of the three to solve, which they’re all kinda hard.
The next one, the sub is, I would probably go with passing. Again, more so than any … Not that it’s an easy puzzle to solve. It, to me, is just easier than trying to solve the last part. Again, you can do some things, I think, to help a player be a better passer. Drill work, skill work. You can control a little bit from an offensive standpoint who has the ball anyways, and you can manipulate that part of the game and just keep the ball out of guys’ hands for the most part that aren’t great passers. And then I would sit drawing fouls, because I’ve found typically that there’s such a feel involved in that. You either kinda do it and you have a knack for it, or you don’t, and it can be a harder … Not that you can’t improve it necessarily, ’cause to think you couldn’t get better at something would be probably minimize why are we all doing this then, if, you know, why are we coaching if we can’t help somebody get better? But I do think it’s guys that get fouled, when you track it, even when they level up from a lower tier conference to, like, they typically, guys that get fouled, get fouled. And I think you can help guys hone that, but it’s hard to teach.
Dan Krikorian 30:12
I wanna go to your rim finishing and the start on that. And parsing it out a little bit between guards versus forwards and centers, and if you’ve got guards that are lacking finishing at the rim, ’cause a lot of times guards are f- trying to finish at the rim via a drive versus forwards and bigs are off of dump-offs or post entries and those kinds of things.
How are you trying to maybe solve, is it playing off of two? What’s the thoughts there on a guard trying to finish better?
Ross Hodge 30:39
Two-foot decisions for sure, and it’s kinda like even in your skill work, you wanna help players increase their skill level, become better finishers in the event you would have to finish this type of shot. But relying on that shot as opposed to needing to make it at the end of a clock is where I think the teaching comes in.
And Coach Estelle, Johnny Estelle, who’s on my staff, old school JUCO coach, division two head coach at Kingsville, he’s in both those hall of fames, you know. He’ll even say it sometimes. Even some of your finishing stations and packages, I mean, he’ll even say, like, “Man, if we have to take this type of shot, should you be shooting it anyways?” You know?
Dan Krikorian 31:24
Right.
Ross Hodge 31:24
And then trying to figure out, which is always difficult and it’s always a tough conversation to have, and we have ’em ’cause we’re comfortable. You know, we like to be honest, you know. Just shot selection in general is not a equal opportunity sport. What’s a good shot for me may be different than what’s a good shot for you, too, and do we all know that?
Not saying that we don’t need to work on those things, but if you’re asking a guard to get down the lane line and finish over length with a touch shot above the square, to your point, are you better off just jump stopping and trying to play off the next pass? ‘Cause those are difficult shots. And I’ll use our point guard last year, Jasper Floyd. He was big and strong and physical. He wasn’t super quick, but he had an ability to get into the paint, and he could get into the paint. And the year before at North Texas and even in the beginning part of his tenure here at West Virginia, just felt like he was taking too many unnecessary twos. And we showed him, we talked about it, and he ended up, I wanna say he had the sixth best two-point field goal percentage in the Big 12 from a point guard. I think he shot over 60% from two. And so much of that was it wasn’t like we were out there changing the diet of what he was working on. It was just more his commitment to making a quality decision at the rim.
And, you know, I’ve heard some of these guys come on here with y’all and talk about the numbers, and they really are alarming. I mean, a guard goes in and takes a tough two or, you know, falls down at the rim, I mean, you are leveraging your defense in a major way on the other end of the floor. So I think that can be worked, again, just through film, through education, through understanding, through a little bit of trial and error. And then commitment from the player’s standpoint and understanding like, hey man, these are, like, the guys that finish a lot of these shots, man, they make a quarter of a billion dollars to play basketball. And not saying that you can’t do that or you won’t be able to do that, but there’s a reason why those guys make those shots, man.
Patrick Carney 33:37
Coach, my follow-up is the same question but geared toward the bigs who are gonna be having a lot of their finishes, like you said, maybe off of dunkers, short roll catches, pocket passes. How much are you working on, is it, like, a finishing package?
Or understand that maybe it’s, like, their ability to understand space just to get to a cleaner finish versus also accounting, like, well, it’s also is this, like, a coordination balance, movement mobility issue that we need to help the bigs with ’cause they’re often bigger bodies playing in traffic?
Ross Hodge 34:07
Great question, and it would be, like, all of the above. I think where we would start with our forwards and like most sports, your feet and the base at which you play with are gonna give you the best advantage. And a lot of time those bigger guys, because they haven’t had to play the game lower, you will find through their careers and to the point they get to you, a lot of them play the game straight up and down. You know, they don’t play the game with a base. They don’t play the game with their feet apart. And a lot of times those big guys have to get used to jumping. I know it sounds, like, so elementary. They’re just from a plyometric standpoint just jumping all the time when they’re in those situations to finish. But, you know, we start with their feet playing the game lower, wider, on balance, to your point, is probably where we start initially. Simply catching the ball with a physical base and your feet apart.
We call it just popping your feet, you know, whether it’s in pockets, whether it’s in rolls, and kinda building the package off of that. And very specific in wanting them to slow down ’cause then inevitably the game’s gonna speed ’em up a little bit, but just throw it to ’em, catch it, pop their feet. Throw it to ’em, catch it, pop their feet. Feet apart, playing the game with a base. And then from that, then we’ll incorporate a little more of the spacing awareness, and they’ll see it. Can they remain patient in the dunker spot and not want to start creeping their way in, whether it’s receiving a bounce pass or the lob? ‘Cause as you guys know, if they start creeping their way in, now they’re catching the ball and they’re under the basket. Now they’re in a very disadvantageous spot with no momentum, and you can’t do anything. There is no even package to build off of. So kinda getting them to try to stay patient and ready. Again, not just standing there straight up with their feet together. So kinda build it with their feet. Then the spatial awareness of understanding where they’re supposed to be. Then I think you get into the finishing package of, hey, now it’s a dunk, now it’s a catch and I’ve shot faked, and now I finish, and now it’s a, a catch with some momentum shot fake, bully pickup, maybe finish to the other side. But if their footwork is clanky, if they’re not playing with a base, we call it, you’re not gonna have balance. You’re gonna be getting knocked off balance. You’re gonna be fumbling and bumbling all over yourself down there. So with those bigs in particular, man, their base at which they play with is everything.
Patrick Carney 36:56
Looking at passing, and if it’s a guy who is a willing passer, you mentioned you can help players be better passers. Where are you starting or where do you think we can have, like, the biggest impact on just helping guys become better passers?
Ross Hodge 37:10
To start that, again, it gets back to like, man, can you just keep yourself out of positions that you shouldn’t be in to begin with? Are you being wise with your dribble?
Are you attacking the correct gap if you’re playing off of a closeout? ‘Cause let’s be honest, if we’re talking about guys that need to improve their passing, you’re probably talking about some of your secondary and an even further down. You’re not talking about your point guards for the most part ’cause they’re gonna have the ball, you know? And if you got a point guard that can’t pass, then we got a whole another litany of problems we need to be trying to figure out.
Patrick Carney 37:43
Yeah.
Ross Hodge 37:44
There is no puzzle. You got one of those puzzles with, like, 5,000 pieces and you’re like- … “This would take me four years to finish.”
Patrick Carney 37:52
Yeah.
Ross Hodge 37:53
So you are kinda talking about people that are probably playing more off closeouts, maybe even some pin down situations for some wings and some forwards. So I think decision-making in the beginning of the play will be really helpful.
Are you just simply, like for against us, you know what I mean? If you are not a great passer and you rip drive baseline, and you take two dribbles and you pick the ball up on the baseline, and you’re getting entrapped by a center and a big wing, like, you probably shouldn’t even have done that. Are you attacking the right gap? Can you just punch the gap and come to a jump stop and not try to get too deep? You know, to me, some of your worst passers tend to be your worst decision-makers because they’re not passing the ball when they should. They probably, maybe they should have shot it. Now they drive it. Now they’re too deep. Now they’re in traffic, and so much of the bad pass was a byproduct of the bad decision. ‘Cause fundamentally, we’ll still break it all the way down to the elementary level and throw chest passes and bounce passes and overhead passes and baseball passes and three person passing and stepping around. And fundamentally, like, unless a guy just has really bad hands, and then you’re probably not… A- again, it’d just be hard to play at this level in general, but helping guys that aren’t great passers keep themselves out of situation where a great pass is necessary to get out of that situation.
Patrick Carney 39:24
Okay. Coach, our next start, sub, sit, we’re gonna stick on the offensive end, but we’re gonna talk about zone offense and-
Ross Hodge 39:30
You know what’s ironic about this? Not to interrupt you, but for years, you know, like again, just kinda being talked about defensively and that kinda being my primary role, obviously when I was an associate head coach and then even kind of having more of that tilt. But you know what’s funny about defensive guys, and I’ve told this all the time, defensive guys, we watch offense all the time. That’s all we watch. We’re not watching defen- you are, but you’re watching offense all the time. You’re watching every team that you play, you’re watching offense. You’re not watching defense, you know? So it’s a weird thought process, you know?
And so funny, like again, just asking offensive questions. Shoot, when I was working with Grant at North Texas, I couldn’t even tell you what our set calls were. I mean, I was just watching all offense all the time, you know? And so, you know, and I’ve heard Sean McVay, when he was a young offensive wide receivers coach or whatever with the Commanders, you know, they said that he would go and sit with the defensive cornerbacks at lunch every day, just spend all his time with all the defensive guys trying to figure out ways to attack it, you know? So I think at times that can be a little, not a misconception, but if a guy’s a really good offensive coach, well he’s probably watching. He can probably tell you what’s really good defense, you know? And if somebody is a good defensive coach, you know, they can probably tell you, like, “Hey man, what’s the five hardest things to guard?” They’re gonna be able to tell you right away ’cause that’s all they’re doing, you know? And I think it’s good for everybody. Everybody’s staffs are built differently nowadays, but with the combination of a lot more people going offense than defensive coordinators, not that I have any answers at all, but I would encourage everybody to spend time with that other side of the ball, you know? ‘Cause that’s all they’re doing.
Patrick Carney 41:19
Oh, makes total sense.
Ross Hodge 41:20
Zone offense, let’s do it.
Patrick Carney 41:22
Yeah. Well coach, with that, hopefully you’ve watched a lot of zone offense.
So we… This question has to do with screening actions, and your start would be the one you think is most effective or that you like the most in puncturing the zone, creating advantages. So our first option would be weak side screening the zone. Our second option we’re calling, like, the reverse ball screen, the short angle screen to the outer third. And then the third option would be some sort of, like, cross screening, interior screening against the low, the center at the big at the rim, or if it’s a three-two, the big’s down at the blocks. But interior screening to try to create advantages and puncture the zone.
Ross Hodge 42:05
Yeah, I would probably start step up ball screens, kinda like to your point on that outer third coming from underneath the top line of the zone underneath them. Mainly because I think that opens up some good opportunities to get the ball to the foul line on a slip after he was to set the ball screen. Kinda coming from behind him, you open up areas where you’re opening up short rolls and pockets to get the ball. And if not, if he can, you know, get underneath that guard and clip him, now the guard is driving that lane line area where you can get your other forward and the dunker in front of him, probably have a shooter in each corner, and you’re able to collapse it hard. You know, I just, I think that’s a good zone action.
I would sub weak side screening. That would be the next thing I would look at it. And probably not so much that you’re gonna be able to get flare screens or pin-ins for shots, but again, another way to distort the defense and open up slips into the foul line area behind it. In our case, the last couple years, a guy like Brennan Lorient, and so many people nowadays have those Draymond Green-ish secondary playmakers at the four spot, at the other forward. And, you know, those type of guys setting flares, setting weak side screens, and then getting into the middle of the defense is a good attack. And then I would just probably sit the cross screen. And I think it’s good.
I mean, I think everybody kinda has the one that kinda zone action in their bag where you set the cross screen and flash to the middle. And I don’t think it’s a bad action at all. I think these are actually a little inverse from the puzzle questions. I thought the puzzle questions were all harder to solve. I think these are all, like, good, better, best action. It’s not like I’m anti that.
I think that’s kinda what we talked about in the origin of defense. I think the cross screening of the big to big against the zone is more of a set play. And I think the step ups or telling a team, like, “Hey, look for some flare opportunities and slips, or look for opportunities to set step ups,” is something that you can do throughout an entire zone possession with a little more repetitive nature than just kind of the cross screen flash play.
Patrick Carney 44:35
That leads kinda into my first question is zooming out and more on, like, a philosophical or your approach to zone offense. And you mentioned, yeah, offense trying to get more conceptual.
Do you think about it trying to, well, let’s just keep running our man offense? Like you said, maybe we flip screens to change it to a step up screen. Or is it we’ll have also a zone offense on top of, you know, what would be our normal offense against a man?
Ross Hodge 45:01
Yeah, I think it depends on what type of zone it is. If it’s, you know, your traditional tandem, kind of like a two-three tandem, I think there’s some spacing elements that can really give a zone like that challenges. So, you know, would probably wanna be a little more like, “Hey, let’s make sure we’re in these areas.” If it’s the matchup, kind of more your true matchup, you’re probably better off running just your man stuff against it.
And then, you know, with a one-three-one, similar to the first, I think you wanna make sure you’re attacking it in certain areas that can leverage it from a space standpoint. So I think you’re probably gonna wanna be a little more organized against a one-three-one or your traditional two-three tandem or the amoeba. I do think there’s some areas. And again, I worked with Grant for seven years. And previous to getting with Grant, he was at Baylor for five years. And during his time at Baylor, that was still when Coach Drew and them were extensively running zone. So kinda to our point earlier, from them running zone for five years and from him being in that program, he was able to see the best attacks that people would use against it. And when we were together there, and then both of us now, like, we’ve had pretty good zone attacks historically, if you just look at the numbers. And I think a lot of it is because of Grant’s time running it and realizing, like, oh, shoot, like, this is, again, not just a play, but conceptually this can make it hard on the zone.
Patrick Carney 46:38
At this point in the season, as, you know, everyone’s starting practice and you’re trying to put in your defense, as we discussed, and then on top of your offense, at what point do you start think about dripping zone offense in and, like, working on zone offense and just having your defense run a zone? You know, how do you always kind of strike that balance of making sure you’re prepared for whatever, you know, other defenses besides the one you’re trying to install?
Ross Hodge 47:03
Last week, we kinda started putting in, we call them our punches, just like a punch segment. If you wanna throw a punch, a soft zone press, your aggressive presses. So last week was the first time we kinda started implementing both of those, making sure we have our press break, making sure we can differentiate, like, okay, is this an aggressive press?
Is this a soft press? Can we get a line? Can we get to where we’re supposed to get to? Can we flow into offense and not be completely bogged down? And vice versa, can you bog it? And then next week, we will start playing against some zone. Usually three weeks out to two weeks out is when we’ll kinda start playing against different types of defenses in relation to zone or man. Throughout, because the side, we’ve had to learn this, because the side defense is a little unique to play against, sometimes it can put your offense at a disadvantage early in the season. And so we’ve had to carve out time. Even early in the summer, we carve out time during the week where you’re playing against a more traditional defense, traditional closeout angles with traditional rotation points. Because again, you’re building habits, and so even as an offense, if you’re building habits and really the only habits you get are to try to rip baseline and try to rip seam and not really rip middle, it’ll show up when you start playing games, and you’ll have middle drives that are available to you that your guys won’t take because they just haven’t been … conditioned to do it.
So against different mans, we really start playing against that right away. You know, whether it’s a hard hedge, whether it’s a switching all five, whether it’s like a, “Hey, we’re gonna do a build but don’t break defense, and everybody’s gonna put their heels on the three-point line and stay underneath.” We’ll start trying to play against those early in the summer, and weekly we’ll try to play against some sort of man-to-man defense that we will not see against ourselves. And then as we get closer to the season, like I said, last week was the first week we put in press O, press D, and then next week we’ll start playing a little bit of zone.
But if you can’t sprint back, call ball, and keep the ball out of the paint, you’re gonna get your ass kicked anyways. So don’t matter. You ain’t even gonna be in any press offense situations ’cause you’re gonna be down.
Dan Krikorian 49:32
Yeah.
Ross Hodge 49:33
So try to take care of that first and then, you know, build the base and then kinda go from there.
Dan Krikorian 49:38
Coach, just with the punch segment, how much time do you dedicate to the punch segment, and at what point in the practice, beginning, middle, end, do you usually like to maybe throw these segments in?
Ross Hodge 49:48
I like to kinda throw them in right away in a couple different ways. I think it can stimulate a player’s mind a little bit. We usually like to play some sort of game early in practice, like stretch, maybe do like a little quick finishing just to get a little lather, and then I like to play… Sometimes we’ll play a turnover game. You know, we’ll play a game to three baskets. Everything’s a one, and if you turn it over, you lose.
Sometimes we’ll play a quick two-minute game, a quick four-minute game. Now that we have our presses in, we’ll just have a quick press segment, you know, and like get into it for 10 minutes. And hey, white’s got the ball, blue’s in, you know, whatever press we’re calling, and you gotta be able to execute on both ends. So I think it can just stimulate the players. ‘Cause you know, traditionally, like you have the build up of the flow of a practice. You have your stretch, then you have your drill work, then you have your defensive transition segment, then you have maybe your shell segment. We have an offensive breakdown, now we play. Sometimes just stimulating the players in a different manner. And if a game goes quick, sometimes we’ll play another one, or sometimes it’s like, “Nope, sorry, you lose.” So maybe, you know, be ready to go. I like to do our press segments right away, see if we can turn it up, see if we can get it cranked up, and again, stimulate everybody’s minds a little bit, ’cause you do have to think both ways, you know, offensively and defensively. It’s new. We just put it in. You know, you need to be able to handle those situations and go from there.
Dan Krikorian 51:24
With attacking the middle of a zone, having, say, forwards and bigs be someone that potentially flashes in there and makes that catch versus a guard or someone like more of a playmaker, and you know, with so many zones now where if your four or five catches it there in the middle, they’ll just back up and let them shoot it and spread out. How do you think about that, different types of players that can get in there and how you organize that?
Ross Hodge 51:47
Like anything else, the better players that you’re playing with are gonna be your better options, you know? I mean, I look at, again, like Brennan Lorien’s very good in those situations. Jefferson for Iowa State is somebody that just kinda flashed to mind. Like, if he catches the ball in that middle paint area, like you’re gonna have problems. I mean, just the bottom line.
He can score, he can draw fouls. And so personally, never been like to flash guards in there, mainly because I would like the gravitational pull of their shooting on the perimeter. But in the modern game, if you kinda don’t have that point forward, somebody that’s comfortable making plays as a secondary ball handler in those pockets, it’s gonna be hard. Not only the zone offense, but playing against man defense that it’s gonna be hard. ‘Cause you know, just a lot of those guys, especially if you’re playing against aggressive ball screen coverages and they’re gonna take the ball out of your guard’s hands, they gotta be able to make secondary decisions in shorts and in the foul line area. But I also think that’s where, from a zone offense situation, you can’t get thinking that that’s all you’re gonna be able to do is just throw it to the foul line and make a decision from there, you know? I think you gotta… Zones do a really good job of making people feel like they’re guarded, but a lot of times they’re not being guarded. So your guards have gotta be willing to punch gaps and drive the ball. As much as they do need to like pass the ball against the zone, you gotta be able to drive the ball against the zone and get two people on you and make strong decisions when you collapse the defense.
Dan Krikorian 53:31
Coach, you’re off the Start, Sub, Sit hot seat. That was a ton of fun. Thanks for going through all the good offensive stuff with us.
Ross Hodge 53:39
Those are good ones.
Dan Krikorian 53:40
Hey, we got a final question to close the show, but before we do, really appreciate your time today. Can’t wait to watch you guys this season, so thanks for coming on.
Ross Hodge 53:47
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Dan Krikorian 53:49
Coach, our final question that we ask all the guests is, what’s the best investment that you’ve made in your career as a coach?
Ross Hodge 53:55
Yeah, I love when you guys ask this question, and I love the answers that people give. And for me, I think simply put, the best investment that I’ve had is just investing in people and investing in the right people, and I’ve been very fortunate to be around, you know, really good coaches and just whether it’s your players, whether it’s your staff, whether you’re a GA, whether you’re an assistant, whether you’re the head coach, investing in people is the way. I mean, it really is. That’s my advice to our players.
The world we live in right now, like it’s almost like counter-messaging to a point because everything is set up to be around like, “Hey, you gotta get yours.” You know what I mean? Like, secure the bag. You do you. Bet on yourself and double down and– I get some of the mindset from a work standpoint of that, but learning that typically, like, when I’ve been the happiest in my life, when I feel like I’ve been the most successful, it’s typically when I’m giving the most of myself to someone else. And with a genuine heart because I don’t think the heart can be, you know, let me invest in my staff, for instance. Let me invest in Johnny Estell, Phil Forte, Mike Randall, Yusef Ali, Jace Hearl, Andre Shaw, Sean McClurg, and I wanna invest in these people, but deep down, I wanna invest in them because at the end of the day, like, it’s still gonna be about me. But, like, can I genuinely scan my heart to know I show up here on a daily basis, and how much can I help these guys? How can I invest in them? And then you’re able to– no different than your players, your team, your teammates. If you really wanna be the best version of yourself and probably receive the blessings that we all want to receive, it’s gotta start with what you’re willing to give.
Dan Krikorian 55:57
Pat, that was a fun one. Coach Hodge, someone obviously has just continued to rise in the profession on both sides of the ball, to be well noted.
Patrick Carney 56:06
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 56:06
Obviously, great defensive and offensive coach as, as we saw today. But was great having him on to discuss what was just a really fun coaching conversation with just thinking about adaptation and trade-offs and teaching and learnings and, you know, obviously-
Patrick Carney 56:22
Yeah
Dan Krikorian 56:22
… centering around some main topics which we’ll get into, but you could tell just a fun coach to probably work for, to play for, someone just fun to be around, so it was awesome having him on today.
Patrick Carney 56:32
Yeah, and as we get into this recap to kinda echo your sentiment, just a lot of trade-off, real-life kinda coaching conversations, whether it’s just actions that stress a defense, even from, like, how to work on non-based defense to help your offense. Like, I think that was the really interesting part.
Dan Krikorian 56:50
For sure. Let’s dive into our takeaways, and for the first one, I’ll throw it to you.
Patrick Carney 56:54
Yeah, so for the first takeaway, I’ll go of course to our big bucket, our initial conversation, just talking about defensive adaptability and kinda the age of this pace/space skill that’s kind of been infused in the game and how just his defensive thought process, identity, well, not really identity, has had to adapt or what kinda the stress points they’ve had to really start to work on. And I think the big takeaway was I really liked his thought that, of course, if you can build clarity and if you can get your defense comfortable in black and white, you’re gonna be good. That’s probably just, like, the bare minimum to entry, I think, anymore.
But then really the best defense, the defense that really excel that he’s been part of are just that they’re just expert in the gray, you know? And we talk a lot about offense and playing more. He alluded to it, too. Playing more through concepts, less sets that make scouting harder. Like, offenses are just getting so good at putting defenses in these gray areas. Is it a ball screen? These different spacings that really are gonna stress test your defense. And so it was fun to just dive in there with how he thinks about putting his defense in these areas and getting good. I think the two big takeaways, and we even in our prep talked about in, like, the– especially in the scramble situations, just I think how defensive go about solving these situations is what really makes them elite when they’re in a disadvantage. And with so much influx of peel switching, where to peel switch, you know, kinda the base identity and areas on the floor, like, what triggers what. I really liked hearing his thoughts on that, and he talked about, of course, one is, like, learning your team. And like anything, you just gotta put them in these situations. I don’t know if there’s any right or wrong, but they’re gonna show you what they can do, and if it’s can we switch all five or do we always gotta try to get the five back on the five? Can we do, like, a full peel switch, let’s say, or where there’s a intricate four man, or is it just four players switching around, or is it just trying to switch the big onto the ball? The guard veers into the big, so to speak. So I like that thought, and then, two, I think he alluded to at the end is also kinda approaching it like, well, what are you trying to give away? And he said for him it was protect the paint. So also making the clarity of, like, what shots we’re willing to live with. What is our defensive identity? No threes, protect paint, and no foul. I mean, we’ve talked about, of course, with a lot of different coaches and a lot of different philosophies, and I think that’s always in, like, the guiding principle of how they are gonna solve these scrambles and where they’re gonna rotate from or what are the least threatening shots they’re willing to give up. Because you’re gonna be put in these situations. It’s not always about getting a clean stop in terms of a missed shot or a steal, but really just over the course of 100 possessions, what can you live with the most?
Dan Krikorian 59:31
For sure. I thought it was really good talking about teams, like, trying to attack, say, like, just in the middle. You know, he’s been such a great no middle-
Patrick Carney 59:39
Mm-hmm
Dan Krikorian 59:39
… philosophy team. And as offenses adapt and, you know, if they’re trying to attack through the middle, be it elbow catches or middle third ball screens or just ghost action, whatever it is, and kinda say, “Hey, we’re not gonna…” You know, if a team just comes down and throws it on a side, for them, it’s like candy, right? They’re just, “Okay, perfect possession. We’re gonna down it, ice it, whatever, keep it on the side, and now we’re in our game.” But if someone’s really trying to not do that, I thought he had good thoughts on how you’re still trying to adapt to that, and I think that that was a good part of the conversation about changing some things up, maybe being more square, but just finding these areas. You mentioned our podcast with TJ Otzelberger-
Patrick Carney 01:00:18
Mm-hmm
Dan Krikorian 01:00:18
… a couple months ago. Similar no middle philosophy and how they’re solving the stuff that’s in the middle. So I thought that was good.
And then he touched on the butt screen. Not only is it hard to guard, it also, I think as a coach, this guy’s literally just standing there with his butt out, and it’s just wrecking our defense. It’s the simplest thing. But it is such a tough action to guard, especially, you know, you could do different stuff down at the bottom, right? You can have a guy ducking in. You can have exit screens. You can– you know, you could do all sorts of fun stuff from there, but just the simple act of a guy standing there- Setting a butt screen, if you’ve got a dynamic guard, it’s kind of brutal to guard
Patrick Carney 01:00:54
And I was relieved to hear his answer because I asked this question out of my own personal struggles. That’s what we’ll be facing this week. And-
Dan Krikorian 01:01:01
Yeah
Patrick Carney 01:01:01
… that’s what we’re gonna attempt to do is, yeah, we’re gonna try to pick up, but then when we hear it coming, like, try to just completely drop back and plug almost to the free throw line and kind of corral it or play it as an under as best we can. Whether we can do it or not, there’s a reason the screen is still being run, ’cause it’s super successful, especially in the looking like that hot stove stuff.
I love the offensive action, but-
Dan Krikorian 01:01:23
Yeah
Patrick Carney 01:01:23
… it was nice to hear that at least we were thinking of the same things because also to his point, he talked about, you know, thinking, “Okay, we’ll weak it. We’ll just force it one direction,” but it really doesn’t neutralize the angle.
It’s just, you know you’re gonna get beat to the left at least.
Dan Krikorian 01:01:35
Yeah. And also if the person setting the butt screen is, like, let’s say, like, a nice, like, pick and pop four, pick and pop five.
Patrick Carney 01:01:41
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:01:42
All they have to do is just take a step back after, and they’re in a nice rhythm three if you help at all on the butt screen. That’s the other nice part about it.
You know, with an on ball, sometimes you gotta work about, like, the footwork to flip out of it and get your feet set. If they’re just setting the butt screen facing the basket, you come off, they take a step back, it’s like they’re just stepping into a rhythm three.
Patrick Carney 01:02:01
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:01
Or they’re stepping into, like, you know, this is now getting into, like, the Davidson, Bob McKillop type stuff, throw it back, chase it to a, an empty side pick and roll action and it’s like, you know, tough.
Patrick Carney 01:02:10
Yeah, no, they’re just playing with, like, great pace and getting into multiple actions, and you’re just chasing everything, so.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:15
Yeah.
Patrick Carney 01:02:16
I think at the very least, if we didn’t solve defensive adaptability, we at least gave coaches an offensive weapon to create gray areas.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:23
Yeah.
Patrick Carney 01:02:23
If you take anything from it-
Dan Krikorian 01:02:24
Yeah
Patrick Carney 01:02:24
… is just set more middle third butt screens, flat screens.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:27
Yeah.
Patrick Carney 01:02:28
They’re almost impossible.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:29
Maybe we should cut this actually.
Patrick Carney 01:02:30
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:31
To add here before we get to the second one, I did actually really like, ’cause we’re talking kind of offensive stuff, I thought he was spot on during the start sub sit when he joked about, “Hey, listen, I, all I do is watch offense.”
Patrick Carney 01:02:41
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:02:42
And we do wanna say he is a very good offensive coach, too. But the way he talked about it was such a good point about when you’re, you know, defensive mind or whatever it is, and you’re watching other really good offenses, you become pretty good offensive coach through osmosis of, like, well, you’re just watching what great offenses do, and how do we solve the toughest actions?
And it’s like, well, let’s just flip that, and let’s do that ourselves offensively. So I thought that was a good point he made as well.
Patrick Carney 01:03:04
All right, Dan, I’ll throw it to you for the second takeaway of the podcast.
Dan Krikorian 01:03:09
So I’ll go to the offensive puzzles to solve the start sub sit there, and I thought this was a fun question because obviously if you have teams that can shoot it, get to the free throw line, finish at the rim, and great decision makers-
Patrick Carney 01:03:24
Yeah
Dan Krikorian 01:03:24
… congratulations on your great season you’re about to have. But for the other 99 or 95% of teams, there’s probably one of these things that just is not quite there.
Patrick Carney 01:03:36
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:03:36
And I think it was just a interesting thought experiment ’cause he talked about it well as far as these are all different things that are hard to potentially solve. I found a lot in his sit, the free throw, getting the free throw line, it made a lot of sense in that him saying if a guy has a history of getting to the line, it just sort of bears out that even as he moves up levels or whatever, like, they just have that knack. And I’ve thought about that a lot.
I mean, of course myself, you’re always like, player development, how do we get more free throws? How do we get players that just don’t quite have that feel? It can kind of be married to your rim finishing. Can you play off two and traffic more and up and unders and seek contact and maybe you can do some PD that kind of helps with that? But it’s so true that certain guys do have that knack. And then the one thing, this is a miss by me, not by Coach Hodge, of course, but one of the things I thought was interesting was when he was talking about the shot selection deal and players that play off of one foot to attack and how if you miss those shots, you’re likely to be in transition the other way. And there’s, like, a fine line between players that are really good drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line. Like, I don’t know. Are, are they better off two or off one? Like, sometimes you get players that are really good of creating contact, going off one, quick finishes. You’re being aggressive. And so if you have someone that’s a good, like, one foot attacker, getting to the line, having to live with, do you sometimes live with a, a missed tough one attacking versus making them get to two? And I think that’s what each player you gotta solve as far as, like, how do they finish down there versus take good shots, and the, the shot selection thing I think is always interesting.
Patrick Carney 01:05:11
I think what’s also interesting is a player has a good feel for getting fouls. We’ve heard it from several coaches that that is something that, like, just translates. And to his point, there’s, at some point, there’s stuff we can teach and help with, but I think a lot of it is in, like, innate feel, and I think it’s drawing fouls and then also offensive rebounding. Like, the two things I think we’ve had heard from multiple coaches, it transcends levels, conferences. It rises with the player to the league. So just interesting tidbit I think is, yes, we all try to– everyone’s gonna be at some point, we’re recruiting players, looking at stuff and all the stats. Like, I think those are the two things that just we constantly keep hearing over and over, like, that do. Tough to teach and translate.
My thought on this conversation or what I enjoyed was when we did get into the passing, and I thought Coach was spot on and when we talked about just how can we help players be better passers, and of course you can talk about chest passes, overhead passes, you know, off the dribble. I thought we had a great conversation with Coach Nevada Smith on off the dribble passing. But I think he was so spot on that of course we’re targeting, like, your complimentary players who are gonna be playing more closeout off the advantages created of others, and really it starts with decision-making at the beginning of the play. And often you see, like, it’s very premeditated maybe their attack. Like, he said, like, they’re gonna get in, they’re just gonna rip and not really reading what’s at the rim, and maybe they ha- you know, they can rip, and they can get by that defender, but then they’re just into a baseline double. And I really like the point he said, helping them avoid situations where, like, great passes are necessary, and that’s really a great feeling, say, for just how to help players become better passers is just help them avoid situations that are not advantageous to their skill set and passing ca-
Dan Krikorian 01:06:57
Just before we close this out, I did wanna just say there’s one other nice takeaway I liked from our other star subset. Thought the zone offensive stuff was really fun. We haven’t talked about that in a little bit.
Patrick Carney 01:07:05
Yeah.
Dan Krikorian 01:07:06
And the reverse ball screen, we’ve seen it a ton, and I thought it related a lot to when we talked about gray areas on defense. That screen against the zone, when you can get it, it creates such a gray area for the zone because like he mentioned, who picks it up? Can the guard get over to switch it? Does the big at the rim have to come take it out? If you’re able to really set those good reverse screens some way, somehow against the zone, I think it’s just such a tough area for zones to handle.
And so I just wanted to point that out ’cause I did think that was definitely worth it.
Patrick Carney 01:07:37
Yeah. And from that conversation, the other thing I wanted to point out was when he talked about his punch segments.
Dan Krikorian 01:07:42
Mm-hmm.
Patrick Carney 01:07:43
And I think the bigger conversation that I really liked from him was that, I mean, they’re traditionally a no middle team, and he talked about you wanna form habits, but then you’re gonna form habits where it’s offense was always trying to rip baseline or rip down the seam, he said, and then you play a team that’s no middle or square, and they’re missing middle drives. So I thought it was– I don’t wanna say the word like, it’s not the word like how aggressive or how early or willing he is to just like, “Okay, yeah, our base even of course is no middle, but we’re not gonna play everyone as no middle, and we’re gonna go more traditional, work on square ball screens or, you know, different coverages-
Dan Krikorian 01:08:18
Mm-hmm
Patrick Carney 01:08:18
… early with my offense because these are habits we need to build, not just habits to break a no middle offense.” And I think we had a conversation with another coach recently who talked about their offense was tremendous at attacking hedge because they predominantly hedged, and they didn’t probably give enough credence to attacking like a drop coverage, and when they faced drop coverage, they really struggled, and it showed up on their record.
And back to what we said at the top, like these real life coaching conversations and trade-offs and when to go to these segments, when to go to different presses, zones, and how you just weigh these things and at what point in practice, how early, how often to build habits and break habits as well.
Dan Krikorian 01:08:55
For sure. Pat, I gave one miss. Is there anything else you and I missed on or could’ve gone deeper on?
Patrick Carney 01:09:01
One other, we got to it a little bit in the first bucket, but he talked about all defense are gonna need some little effort, activity on the ball and activity off the ball.
Dan Krikorian 01:09:10
Mm-hmm.
Patrick Carney 01:09:11
I kinda had it down as a point I wanted to follow up, never got around to, but just, yeah, activity off the ball, whether it’s gap coverage, what it means to him, and just kind of how they’re teaching that and was something I wish I had followed up on. And again, I think we hit on it when we started getting the scramble and the rotation stuff there.
But yeah, from of course being no middle and I think, and he talked about heavy loads, but just yeah, what that meant to him, activity off the ball.
Dan Krikorian 01:09:36
For sure. We do appreciate Coach Hodge for coming on. Thank you everybody for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
Patrick Carney 01:09:46
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please make sure to visit slappingglass.com for more information on the free newsletter, Slapping Glass Plus, and much more. Have a great week coaching, and we’ll see you next time on Slapping Glass.